We've had two really great days on cattle, in my estimation.
My new thought on this is that taking a methodic approach and saying, "She's her own dog" is important. It was obvious today, too, because I took Fury along and worked her on goats and she works so much more like the Woods' border collies than Rippa - wide outruns, fast movements, super snappy. It's really fun and they obviously like her more than Rippa, but it's okay.
I did a lot of reading on my break, and things like me expecting Rippa to go out wide, and fast and then turn in and be snappy are just wrong. Fury's just way different in that way. I like it, it's fun, but Rippa has her own positives, too. She's more loose eyed and when she's in control, she goes SLOWER, and I am starting to use that to my advantage.
So we've been basically working on two things - getting her "there" and "walk up," back (now that I know she understands it on other stock) and controlled outruns and fetches.
Rippa's got a lot more confidence again and she's able to cleanly fetch the cattle from one end of the arena and get them to me, but when they start to go past me she'll lose her sense of control and it falls apart, so what I'm doing is using that to teach the drive.
We have to train some more clear commands for her: her "down" means both "down" and "stop" so I need to get her to just stand, too. All I need is a pause . . . so obedience there. And then I also need to get her to slow her pace down on command better than I have. Obedience there. How? Dustin told me to go SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOW down to let her get ready to lay down. Problem is, I've been crutching on the "down" to slow her down so I need to get more crisp. Shannon suggested working on this with sheep and I agree, that's a great place to do it.
Anyway, she's making good choices and fetching in a nice controlled manner to me now. She's starting to be willing to walk up and drive away from me again, but I have to stay parallel and stop the action when the cows start to pick up speed as she hasn't figured out how to get ahead of their eye without turning them back.
Dustin says I'm the brake and she's the gas, but the current set of cattle are really light to people and Rippa's not so "broke" yet that I can watch the cows and be that for her. It's cool.
Looks like Robbie's got a couple cattle trials on deck, one of them IN San Luis Obispo in October that I want to help out at, but I also think I might just enter it. I'm at a point where I know I won't win, but she's got enough confidence to give it a go maybe and I do need to get more trialing experience, especially on horseback.
So I'm gone for two weeks on a road trip, and then I'll be back with a vengeance to see if I can't get ready for that trial. BUT, important thing here is to make sure Rippa keeps her confidence up and I let her work her cows. I definitely messed things up at that last trial and put a lot of pressure on her and she's back and happy again - and so am I.
And Fury's ready to go back into started sheep to finish that one leg she needs, but . . . I'm definitely going to wait until Rippa's ready to drive without me breaking her in a trial first. The cattle trials are more about getting a solid fetch and then being there to help your dog do obstacles, so I don't think I'll break her. I think it will be good "real life" work for her. And everyone will sass me for having an Aussie anyway, so whatever.
But, I won't enter it if I think I'll do damage to her training or confidence, I promise. The nice thing is, if she gets western, it's not a big deal there so I don't think it will - I think all my ratcheting down on her at the ASCA trials was key to the confidence killing. I can get her to get under control and keep going without worrying about being thank you'd. Probably good for my confidence, too. But LORDY they're expensive, especially when you know you won't win. :)
Wednesday, August 19, 2015
Wednesday, August 12, 2015
A "using dog" or a "using person"?
I've learned a phrase from Shannon: "using dog." Like a "using horse," a using dog is a dog that gets it done on the ranch but maybe isn't so wonderful for exhibition because of whatever reason.
I'm starting to think I've got "using dogs."
Of course, I don't really know what that means, but hear me out a minute.
I've been using the dogs to work my chickens since I've had them. At first it was kind of hard, but the chickens have since figured out what's going on and so have the dogs. I use them regularly for a few things:
1. Getting them out of the coop, for moving or for cleaning the coop.
2. Getting them out of the yard and into the front for chicken grazing (it's a thing, handy for bugs and weeds, I tell you what - fun fact, they never want to leave my property, not to cross the street, not to go to the neighbors, I have no idea why)
3. Bringing them back out of the yard.
4. Moving them to a different part of the yard and holding them there.
5. Driving them back into the coop.
Both dogs do this pretty flawlessly. After my last post where I was thinking, "Man, for all this work I've put in, the dogs sure should be farther," I really noticed some things today when doing my chicken work, especially because my little Polish hen works differently than the others and the dogs have to do things.
1. Neither dog pushes the chickens too hard. They might push them "too much" and miss the mark, like letting the chickens see the fence hole first time, but most times they slam dunk it.
2. Both dogs know how to drive and take their "walk up and there" perfectly and confidently.
3. Neither dog chops off the top and messes their flock up.
4. Both dogs are totally trust worthy on their outruns.
So, like . . . why is it when I'm "training" them for this trial stuff I don't have that. It's not the chickens. I think it's that they're "my chickens."
Kind of like the ducks. They're pretty much all of those things on my ducks. And my ducks, in turn, act pretty predictably. They don't flip back like the trial ducks. And, that's why at trials if my dog happens to munch a duck with a foot or a mouth, I don't stress it. They don't actually hurt ducks.
And you're like, "Okay, Kristin, maybe it's just that they're used to your routine."
Is that it? Because at Stephanie's, we've got a routine and I work sheep more than I work my ducks, for sure. Yet still, there's something missing.
Is it the pressure I'm putting on them? The stress I put on it? The emphasis on the perfection I'm looking for? The lack of "point to it all?" After all, Rippa's quit me on ducks when I've practiced for trialing, she's never quit me on chickens.
Are they just "too much dog" for a trial in that I can get them to do chores they know and understand all day on stock they recognize?
I mean, after all, these trials are different things - the stock is unfamiliar with the dog, the dog unfamiliar with the stock. Both might be unfamiliar with the setup. Now the dog is asked to do a lot of finite things with flighty stock that he's never usually asked to do on the ranch (or, you know, suburban home) . . . are there just dogs out there that don't shine there? Well, yes.
But again, could it be something different with me, too, though? I have so many problems with the sheep and cattle and it's on other people's stock. Could it be me?
What if I never figure it out or get over it? Am I a "using person?" Might be.
Ya'll really need to pool your resources and get me a ranch on the coast (Yishai specifically said he vetoes anything over the grade in the heat) so we can find out.
I'm starting to think I've got "using dogs."
Of course, I don't really know what that means, but hear me out a minute.
I've been using the dogs to work my chickens since I've had them. At first it was kind of hard, but the chickens have since figured out what's going on and so have the dogs. I use them regularly for a few things:
1. Getting them out of the coop, for moving or for cleaning the coop.
2. Getting them out of the yard and into the front for chicken grazing (it's a thing, handy for bugs and weeds, I tell you what - fun fact, they never want to leave my property, not to cross the street, not to go to the neighbors, I have no idea why)
3. Bringing them back out of the yard.
4. Moving them to a different part of the yard and holding them there.
5. Driving them back into the coop.
Both dogs do this pretty flawlessly. After my last post where I was thinking, "Man, for all this work I've put in, the dogs sure should be farther," I really noticed some things today when doing my chicken work, especially because my little Polish hen works differently than the others and the dogs have to do things.
1. Neither dog pushes the chickens too hard. They might push them "too much" and miss the mark, like letting the chickens see the fence hole first time, but most times they slam dunk it.
2. Both dogs know how to drive and take their "walk up and there" perfectly and confidently.
3. Neither dog chops off the top and messes their flock up.
4. Both dogs are totally trust worthy on their outruns.
So, like . . . why is it when I'm "training" them for this trial stuff I don't have that. It's not the chickens. I think it's that they're "my chickens."
Kind of like the ducks. They're pretty much all of those things on my ducks. And my ducks, in turn, act pretty predictably. They don't flip back like the trial ducks. And, that's why at trials if my dog happens to munch a duck with a foot or a mouth, I don't stress it. They don't actually hurt ducks.
And you're like, "Okay, Kristin, maybe it's just that they're used to your routine."
Is that it? Because at Stephanie's, we've got a routine and I work sheep more than I work my ducks, for sure. Yet still, there's something missing.
Is it the pressure I'm putting on them? The stress I put on it? The emphasis on the perfection I'm looking for? The lack of "point to it all?" After all, Rippa's quit me on ducks when I've practiced for trialing, she's never quit me on chickens.
Are they just "too much dog" for a trial in that I can get them to do chores they know and understand all day on stock they recognize?
I mean, after all, these trials are different things - the stock is unfamiliar with the dog, the dog unfamiliar with the stock. Both might be unfamiliar with the setup. Now the dog is asked to do a lot of finite things with flighty stock that he's never usually asked to do on the ranch (or, you know, suburban home) . . . are there just dogs out there that don't shine there? Well, yes.
But again, could it be something different with me, too, though? I have so many problems with the sheep and cattle and it's on other people's stock. Could it be me?
What if I never figure it out or get over it? Am I a "using person?" Might be.
Ya'll really need to pool your resources and get me a ranch on the coast (Yishai specifically said he vetoes anything over the grade in the heat) so we can find out.
Tuesday, August 11, 2015
Good work even when it doesn't feel like it.
Went out to sheep this week and Cindy was there. I asked her to sort off some heavy ones for me and we'd take them to the back field and she could work her dog in the close field. They weren't quite heavy enough, so I got really frustrated because it was a balance between trying to my dog work and not creating bad habits - the sheep just wouldn't settle for me to start it out clean.
Toward the end, I figured out it was one specific sheep that was the problem and asked Cindy if she'd take her and sorted her out of the gate. Things should have gone better for us, but I guess the horse run wasn't secured well enough and they ended up with Stephanie's horse and goat. I left the door open and both of those guys took one look of me and said, "See ya," leaving the sheep in the back pens.
So frustrated. So frustrated. But then . . .
I've been back here a bit but not really paid attention to it. Remember I said that Rippa needed work in closer places and with gates? This was perfect. There was a great gateway between two pens, so I got to work.
Rippa is surprisingly a very nice pen dog. I think she can dial it all back when there's fences holding the sheep (vs Fury who needs as much space as she can get to feel most comfortable). We did some round pen work and then I had her hold sheep in the gate way, push them through, take them back, etc. It was great. A good way to get her to feel control as she has stock go through gateways. I think we're going to spend a lot more time back there now.
I took the Fury in back and put her on a line and did the Ben Means stuff again and it did settle her. She really has a hard time on the go-by side and being able to correct before helped so much that when I took her out to the arena to finish up our session, guys . . . SHE BALANCED TO THE SHEEP. And she kicked out on go-bys! This is really big for her, because she usually cuts her top on the go-by and I have to be REALLY on it to keep her from getting in contact with the sheep (this is usually just barrelling into them like a jerk).
I let that happen for a couple minutes before putting them away but YES!!
Remember I said we were missing that good pen work that Kathy worked into the whole thing? I might have figured it out. If the dogs start to feel more in control and relaxed up close to the stock, it seems to show out in the arena when they have less control.
I drove away, though, feeling a little down, to be honest. I feel like at this point, Rippa should be a lot more finished than she is, but we're SO started still. I got her to take a couple steps in a drive in the pens, stopped her and made sure the picked them up nicely in there, but as Shannon said last session - if a dog can't be trusted on an outrun, how you going to get them to control themselves on a drive? And she can't be, really - the minute she starts to feel like she's losing them, she doesn't take control on the outrun, she drives harder.
And since they're such different dogs and they both do that. Whose fault do you think that is?
Two thumbs, right here: me.
Been training for almost a decade on and off and have I really learned nothing in all that time? Ugh.
So that's how I feel right now, but both dogs did some really great work if I calmed myself down and took care of my end.
Mantra: 1% improvement every day = 100% at the end of 100 days . . .
I think I have two jobs right now:
Woof
Toward the end, I figured out it was one specific sheep that was the problem and asked Cindy if she'd take her and sorted her out of the gate. Things should have gone better for us, but I guess the horse run wasn't secured well enough and they ended up with Stephanie's horse and goat. I left the door open and both of those guys took one look of me and said, "See ya," leaving the sheep in the back pens.
So frustrated. So frustrated. But then . . .
I've been back here a bit but not really paid attention to it. Remember I said that Rippa needed work in closer places and with gates? This was perfect. There was a great gateway between two pens, so I got to work.
Rippa is surprisingly a very nice pen dog. I think she can dial it all back when there's fences holding the sheep (vs Fury who needs as much space as she can get to feel most comfortable). We did some round pen work and then I had her hold sheep in the gate way, push them through, take them back, etc. It was great. A good way to get her to feel control as she has stock go through gateways. I think we're going to spend a lot more time back there now.
I took the Fury in back and put her on a line and did the Ben Means stuff again and it did settle her. She really has a hard time on the go-by side and being able to correct before helped so much that when I took her out to the arena to finish up our session, guys . . . SHE BALANCED TO THE SHEEP. And she kicked out on go-bys! This is really big for her, because she usually cuts her top on the go-by and I have to be REALLY on it to keep her from getting in contact with the sheep (this is usually just barrelling into them like a jerk).
I let that happen for a couple minutes before putting them away but YES!!
Remember I said we were missing that good pen work that Kathy worked into the whole thing? I might have figured it out. If the dogs start to feel more in control and relaxed up close to the stock, it seems to show out in the arena when they have less control.
I drove away, though, feeling a little down, to be honest. I feel like at this point, Rippa should be a lot more finished than she is, but we're SO started still. I got her to take a couple steps in a drive in the pens, stopped her and made sure the picked them up nicely in there, but as Shannon said last session - if a dog can't be trusted on an outrun, how you going to get them to control themselves on a drive? And she can't be, really - the minute she starts to feel like she's losing them, she doesn't take control on the outrun, she drives harder.
And since they're such different dogs and they both do that. Whose fault do you think that is?
Two thumbs, right here: me.
Been training for almost a decade on and off and have I really learned nothing in all that time? Ugh.
So that's how I feel right now, but both dogs did some really great work if I calmed myself down and took care of my end.
Mantra: 1% improvement every day = 100% at the end of 100 days . . .
I think I have two jobs right now:
- Go into each session with some objectives and if the situation doesn't work, okay. Change objectives.
- Look for good stuff you got out of the day and dwell on that. I need some reinforcement, and I need to give it to the dogs.
Woof
Wednesday, July 29, 2015
Cows and the Zen of Stockdogging
Went back to cattle today. Shannon and Dustin had some very easy calves this go round, which was perfect for Rippa. They rotate their stock out when they get too easy and so dogs get a pretty good exposure to different behaviors as they go. I love this. It's got to be a lot of work to find calves to switch in and out (it used to be going to the stockyard auctions, but they got a hook up with a local cattleman), which again shows me how awesomely dedicated they are to being, well, awesome.
Anyway, I decided to go into the cattle the same way I did with the sheep. Big stick, no expectations, eyes wide open.
I told Shannon we needed to work on chores because I'm starting to get that I've been pushing for obstacle training and it's been shutting Rippa's confidence down big time.
Jobs today for her: get the cattle off the hill, put them in the obstacle/pen and hold them, and put them away. I was going to try to not be too involved with the whole thing but correct her for mistakes and praise when she was right.
We never talk about the handler when we talk about how good the dog is, but man . . . I have said this before and I'll say it again, I gave myself SUCH bad habits. It's hard to break bad habits, but if the me of now sees how far I've come in mindset and habits compared to the mindset of me ten years ago in regular life, I can overcome this. I just know I have to. At the end of the session, when I put the cattle back with Rippa, I was like, "I won't take the stick, I'll just let her do stuff." Shannon: "You sure?" Me: "Yes." Shannon: "OH MY GOD KRISTIN YOU FRUSTRATE ME SO MUCH!"
I thought she was talking about setting something up correctly and helping her, which I didn't want to do. I wanted Rippa to naturally figure it out herself. She was talking about the stick. The stick made such a big difference today because I didn't need to use aggressive body language to get her to mind and she was much happier.
Which brings me to zen and the art of stockdogging. I don't tell many people but I do a lot of selfwork. Meditation, work on negative self-talk, working on non-judgement and non-attachment. The latter two are ESPECIALLY challenging on stock for the reasons I outlined last time.
So here's my plan of attack with that. Since I am no longer in the cozy busom of Australian Shepherd land where I'm comparing my dogs to other Aussies, seeing Aussies work, and having different expectations, I have to stop thinking that my dog needs to be a border collie, work like a border collie, and progress like one. I totally see how while I guarded against that at first, it sucked me in.
1. I need to learn a lot more about the job of an Aussie and why its loose-eyed upright style is good for it compared to the stronger eyed, wide running Border Collie. I want to see both work big herds without a lot of training. I want to see both in their elements. I want to talk to stockmen and see what they use them for and why. And I will. I asked Shannon that next time she turns her young dogs on a lot of cattle, to please bring me along. It's one thing to see her perfectly finished dogs like I did at the ranch, and another to see newbs. How do they work for them at first, what does all this arena training do? Etc. I also need to find ranchers with Aussies, which is a bigger job. A lot more travelling for sure.
2. I need to look at my own dog with non-judgement and non-attachment and evaluate her and my performance on that, not on the yard stick of others. It bothers me that it has taken a long time to get where I have with her, but I think a lot of it is me and not her - but only a new puppy with a new foundation will prove that one. What we have right now is what we have right now, and it's plenty enough. In my apprenticeship of stockdogs, whatever Rippa lacks, I can make work for sure - whether it's fixing myself or learning how to help her.
So, going into it, here's what I got out of the session:
What Rippa does nicely:
1. Is very interested in helping me get jobs done rather than make stuff up for herself.
2. She is hitting heads and heels pretty evenly and not totally superflously. I've said before that it seems like in trial land you don't want them hitting at all, but I'd rather her develop her hits over time than not do it at all. She's been favoring the head hits a lot more and I was thinking she wasn't balanced, but today she hit heels when she was driving them sometimes and it was nice and low on the heel rather than high on the haunch like how she was when she started. And she clearly is making choices about when and who to hit. He hits to the head I like a lot, too. She gets right in there and makes deliberate choices. She doesn't go for the nose, but for the poll, which I'm not sure is good or bad. For really rough stock, I think you'd want the more sensitive nose, but she doesn't need it on any of the Woods' cattle, so maybe it's there and she doesn't need it, or maybe it's not and that's something to know about her. Either way, it's nice. It's nice to look at for sure. It's nice to have, too, because I know that in addition to dogs not willing to hit at all, most tend to favor one or another. The fact that she's got both (like her mother) is nice.
3. She really, really minds the stick now and is able to balance the cattle to me and fetch the way I've been wanting but not getting before.
4. She's brave enough to pull them off the fence by going between them again. She did it once and it didn't totally work out so I helped her a couple times, but this was a strength she got at the Betty Williams clinic and we'd lost it a bit there for a while.
5. She stops really nicely.
6. She'll take most of her "outs" though it doesn't mean really get out wider, but stop working the flank you're working right now. That's okay. See #1.
What Rippa's not doing nicely:
1. She does not feel good working independently. When we were putting them away, I asked her for an outrun to the end of the arena to bring them to me and she went about halfway and stopped, waiting for help from me. Given that she was happy to do this earlier, this is probably created by me training for trials and doing fake drives during the trials themselves by calling her in to me and then sending her again instead of having a good drive. Fixable, I think.
2. No there, no walk up. I definitely broke this, and I think this has to do with #1 because that's it. She'd rather go to head than get behind them.
3. Rating herself. When she has them on the fence and starts parallel driving with me, she'll get excited and start pushing them too hard and I have to either verbally slow her down or send her to head. I think she WANTS the opportunity to go to head but I don't want her to do that. She's pushy. She gets right up their butts if they'll let her, so while some of that is training, some of that is her.
What Rippa does differently than the Woods' dogs:
1. She does not like big, wide outruns. She'll cut as much as she can and come in directly on the flank to get behind them. Like I said before, this does actually work. It's not stylish, but if she's not trying to make trouble and not going too fast, it's fine. I was reading about this on the Internet - the loose eyed dogs will work closer, but slower than the eye dogs that do fast, wide work. Like, **click** - I've been worrying that Rippa's slowing down and paying less attention while never getting wider and . . . duh. She's being loose-eyed. It's her thing. It's what she was bred for. STOP COMPARING YOURSELF TO THE OTHER DOGS.
2. She's not crisp on her commands. Shan and Dust both can put their dogs exactly where they want them and they will do that all day long for them. Something I know from Kathy and everyone else is that if you stop the Aussie from working, it's like a punishment. On your feet, always working, don't take away the job. Rippa's busy thinking about stuff and is going to question what I want, ESPECIALLY because half the time I'm too slow to know what I want when I'm handling the cattle because I'm too busy looking at her and not the stock.
A really good article about the differences is on WorkingAussieSource by Jeanne Weaver. In it, she says, BCs take pressure off easily and rate more naturally, plus they're better at seeing the bigger picture for those big outruns. Aussies aren't meant to be good here. They have power to move really tough stock up close. In fact, in Rippa's case, she has too much power to work light stock up close - I go back to the one trial where we had to do ASCA started E course and I had to get her lined out from the back of the arena to fetch through the panels because she just can't dial back the presence (at least yet) of sheep that aren't used to her and they want to be as far from her as possible.
Anyway, I think I'll have a better time staying true to my dog if I just look at what she's got and refine that within limits as well as get a better understanding of how she's different from the dogs I see all the time and how that fits into the equation. After all, if you're going to sell people on a dog, you need to be honest if it's the right dog for them.
Do I think I'll kick Border Collie ass at horseback cattle trials? Probably not. Moving a small head of stock through finite panels is not going to be her forte'. Can we do it for fun? Sure thing. Do I even think I'll kick Aussie ass at trials? Honestly? I don't. Low qualifying scores are fine with me. She's a fine little chore dog and if I can get past the confidence stuff, we can say whether she'd make a good ranch gathering dog - right now it's lacking there, but I wonder how much of that is me making mistakes all this time so that her confidence is shot (she's a sensitive dog to me for sure). It would be interesting to go to the Woods' ranch and try to gather in some of their cattle out of the hills and brush - would she have the go juice to do it or would she say, "This is hard and I don't feel good about it?"
One of the things I feel like watching her today is that if I get the confidence thing licked right now, we might have a very different essay soon. Having trained her to do a lot of things at this point, she's been very serious about being right. When she learns something new, she gets really cranky about it, sluggish, not excited to try it. But as soon as she "gets" it, she GETS it and the energy comes back 100%. Part of the time off things we did were training things and I have been teaching her formal fetch. I do positive clicker-type training and she will stop offering behaviors or look like she's bored (or try to just get the treats) but if you hang in there long enough, she'll have a break through and you'll get REALLY happy behavior offering. In fact, she's REALLY fun to train when this happens.You just have to realize she's a sullen learner.
Hey, we're all different, right? Good thing I'm also a professional teacher. Take them where they're at, find what ignites their heart, and take them where you want them to go.
Non-attachment, non-judgement, and understanding the differences that exist. Ohm.
Anyway, I decided to go into the cattle the same way I did with the sheep. Big stick, no expectations, eyes wide open.
I told Shannon we needed to work on chores because I'm starting to get that I've been pushing for obstacle training and it's been shutting Rippa's confidence down big time.
Jobs today for her: get the cattle off the hill, put them in the obstacle/pen and hold them, and put them away. I was going to try to not be too involved with the whole thing but correct her for mistakes and praise when she was right.
We never talk about the handler when we talk about how good the dog is, but man . . . I have said this before and I'll say it again, I gave myself SUCH bad habits. It's hard to break bad habits, but if the me of now sees how far I've come in mindset and habits compared to the mindset of me ten years ago in regular life, I can overcome this. I just know I have to. At the end of the session, when I put the cattle back with Rippa, I was like, "I won't take the stick, I'll just let her do stuff." Shannon: "You sure?" Me: "Yes." Shannon: "OH MY GOD KRISTIN YOU FRUSTRATE ME SO MUCH!"
I thought she was talking about setting something up correctly and helping her, which I didn't want to do. I wanted Rippa to naturally figure it out herself. She was talking about the stick. The stick made such a big difference today because I didn't need to use aggressive body language to get her to mind and she was much happier.
Which brings me to zen and the art of stockdogging. I don't tell many people but I do a lot of selfwork. Meditation, work on negative self-talk, working on non-judgement and non-attachment. The latter two are ESPECIALLY challenging on stock for the reasons I outlined last time.
So here's my plan of attack with that. Since I am no longer in the cozy busom of Australian Shepherd land where I'm comparing my dogs to other Aussies, seeing Aussies work, and having different expectations, I have to stop thinking that my dog needs to be a border collie, work like a border collie, and progress like one. I totally see how while I guarded against that at first, it sucked me in.
1. I need to learn a lot more about the job of an Aussie and why its loose-eyed upright style is good for it compared to the stronger eyed, wide running Border Collie. I want to see both work big herds without a lot of training. I want to see both in their elements. I want to talk to stockmen and see what they use them for and why. And I will. I asked Shannon that next time she turns her young dogs on a lot of cattle, to please bring me along. It's one thing to see her perfectly finished dogs like I did at the ranch, and another to see newbs. How do they work for them at first, what does all this arena training do? Etc. I also need to find ranchers with Aussies, which is a bigger job. A lot more travelling for sure.
2. I need to look at my own dog with non-judgement and non-attachment and evaluate her and my performance on that, not on the yard stick of others. It bothers me that it has taken a long time to get where I have with her, but I think a lot of it is me and not her - but only a new puppy with a new foundation will prove that one. What we have right now is what we have right now, and it's plenty enough. In my apprenticeship of stockdogs, whatever Rippa lacks, I can make work for sure - whether it's fixing myself or learning how to help her.
So, going into it, here's what I got out of the session:
What Rippa does nicely:
1. Is very interested in helping me get jobs done rather than make stuff up for herself.
2. She is hitting heads and heels pretty evenly and not totally superflously. I've said before that it seems like in trial land you don't want them hitting at all, but I'd rather her develop her hits over time than not do it at all. She's been favoring the head hits a lot more and I was thinking she wasn't balanced, but today she hit heels when she was driving them sometimes and it was nice and low on the heel rather than high on the haunch like how she was when she started. And she clearly is making choices about when and who to hit. He hits to the head I like a lot, too. She gets right in there and makes deliberate choices. She doesn't go for the nose, but for the poll, which I'm not sure is good or bad. For really rough stock, I think you'd want the more sensitive nose, but she doesn't need it on any of the Woods' cattle, so maybe it's there and she doesn't need it, or maybe it's not and that's something to know about her. Either way, it's nice. It's nice to look at for sure. It's nice to have, too, because I know that in addition to dogs not willing to hit at all, most tend to favor one or another. The fact that she's got both (like her mother) is nice.
3. She really, really minds the stick now and is able to balance the cattle to me and fetch the way I've been wanting but not getting before.
4. She's brave enough to pull them off the fence by going between them again. She did it once and it didn't totally work out so I helped her a couple times, but this was a strength she got at the Betty Williams clinic and we'd lost it a bit there for a while.
5. She stops really nicely.
6. She'll take most of her "outs" though it doesn't mean really get out wider, but stop working the flank you're working right now. That's okay. See #1.
What Rippa's not doing nicely:
1. She does not feel good working independently. When we were putting them away, I asked her for an outrun to the end of the arena to bring them to me and she went about halfway and stopped, waiting for help from me. Given that she was happy to do this earlier, this is probably created by me training for trials and doing fake drives during the trials themselves by calling her in to me and then sending her again instead of having a good drive. Fixable, I think.
2. No there, no walk up. I definitely broke this, and I think this has to do with #1 because that's it. She'd rather go to head than get behind them.
3. Rating herself. When she has them on the fence and starts parallel driving with me, she'll get excited and start pushing them too hard and I have to either verbally slow her down or send her to head. I think she WANTS the opportunity to go to head but I don't want her to do that. She's pushy. She gets right up their butts if they'll let her, so while some of that is training, some of that is her.
What Rippa does differently than the Woods' dogs:
1. She does not like big, wide outruns. She'll cut as much as she can and come in directly on the flank to get behind them. Like I said before, this does actually work. It's not stylish, but if she's not trying to make trouble and not going too fast, it's fine. I was reading about this on the Internet - the loose eyed dogs will work closer, but slower than the eye dogs that do fast, wide work. Like, **click** - I've been worrying that Rippa's slowing down and paying less attention while never getting wider and . . . duh. She's being loose-eyed. It's her thing. It's what she was bred for. STOP COMPARING YOURSELF TO THE OTHER DOGS.
2. She's not crisp on her commands. Shan and Dust both can put their dogs exactly where they want them and they will do that all day long for them. Something I know from Kathy and everyone else is that if you stop the Aussie from working, it's like a punishment. On your feet, always working, don't take away the job. Rippa's busy thinking about stuff and is going to question what I want, ESPECIALLY because half the time I'm too slow to know what I want when I'm handling the cattle because I'm too busy looking at her and not the stock.
A really good article about the differences is on WorkingAussieSource by Jeanne Weaver. In it, she says, BCs take pressure off easily and rate more naturally, plus they're better at seeing the bigger picture for those big outruns. Aussies aren't meant to be good here. They have power to move really tough stock up close. In fact, in Rippa's case, she has too much power to work light stock up close - I go back to the one trial where we had to do ASCA started E course and I had to get her lined out from the back of the arena to fetch through the panels because she just can't dial back the presence (at least yet) of sheep that aren't used to her and they want to be as far from her as possible.
Anyway, I think I'll have a better time staying true to my dog if I just look at what she's got and refine that within limits as well as get a better understanding of how she's different from the dogs I see all the time and how that fits into the equation. After all, if you're going to sell people on a dog, you need to be honest if it's the right dog for them.
Do I think I'll kick Border Collie ass at horseback cattle trials? Probably not. Moving a small head of stock through finite panels is not going to be her forte'. Can we do it for fun? Sure thing. Do I even think I'll kick Aussie ass at trials? Honestly? I don't. Low qualifying scores are fine with me. She's a fine little chore dog and if I can get past the confidence stuff, we can say whether she'd make a good ranch gathering dog - right now it's lacking there, but I wonder how much of that is me making mistakes all this time so that her confidence is shot (she's a sensitive dog to me for sure). It would be interesting to go to the Woods' ranch and try to gather in some of their cattle out of the hills and brush - would she have the go juice to do it or would she say, "This is hard and I don't feel good about it?"
One of the things I feel like watching her today is that if I get the confidence thing licked right now, we might have a very different essay soon. Having trained her to do a lot of things at this point, she's been very serious about being right. When she learns something new, she gets really cranky about it, sluggish, not excited to try it. But as soon as she "gets" it, she GETS it and the energy comes back 100%. Part of the time off things we did were training things and I have been teaching her formal fetch. I do positive clicker-type training and she will stop offering behaviors or look like she's bored (or try to just get the treats) but if you hang in there long enough, she'll have a break through and you'll get REALLY happy behavior offering. In fact, she's REALLY fun to train when this happens.You just have to realize she's a sullen learner.
Hey, we're all different, right? Good thing I'm also a professional teacher. Take them where they're at, find what ignites their heart, and take them where you want them to go.
Non-attachment, non-judgement, and understanding the differences that exist. Ohm.
Monday, July 27, 2015
Back from a Break and Better For It
This will be a long post, but I'll get the stuff you might be interested out of the way and leave my ramblings toward the end - this is primarily for me to get stuff down so I remember it, but I know people read this, so here goes:
We took a bit more than a month break from most stock activities. We did sheep once and there's always some light chicken work to do (push them out of the coop, put them back, put them out into the side yard, bring them back, etc), but really not much.
A couple reasons:
1. So much pressure. I'd done the trialing, entered the one trial I really shouldn't have, and spent a lot of time training for the trial instead of training my dogs. I started questioning why I was doing this, whether my dogs were any good, etc, etc.
2. This translated to me being mean to my dogs. Fury can handle it, we'll get into that later, but Rippa shuts down when I shut her down. It's not fair and I knew it.
3. I was having really rough first trimester and it made me not want to do anything - my timing was off, I felt sick, and just . . .ehh. (Yes, I was pregnant - I say was because I lost it in the second trimester. That's kind of a bummer, but I am happy it happened to be honest - I was not ready emotionally or physically the way I wanted to be so this gives me a chance to get there.)
4. I was in a major work crunch - literally could not imagine taking the hour commute to cattle (two hour to ducks/sheep) and the hour of working while there.
5. I actually went on vacation for 2 weeks, so there's that, too.
The time off allowed me to chill. I'll talk about that later. I worked on my relationship with Rippa - from being more patient and kind to her, rewarding her for being nice and noticing it, to working on my expectations of her obedience. The results speak for themselves. Both dogs are way less cranky to each other than they can be, Rippa has been perky and happier than I've seen in a long while, and some long time behavior stuff (especially her dislike for dogs in her face) is going away. She's more confident. My job was to build her up and it helped.
Today we went back to Stephanie's. I had a new mindset. I was just going to go there, see what I had and work quietly and lovingly with both dogs and see where I was at.
I always start with Rippa at Stephanie's because we have to get sheep out of their pen that has a shed around it and we've worked long enough that it's old hat for her to do it. She pushes them out of the pen, at which point they shoot across the field and she has to gather them back while I sort the ones I don't want back in. I used to try to sort out of the pen, but I think Stephanie sorts differently than I learned at Kathy's and the leader sheep tend to hang back and I end up with the light and spazzy sheep out in the arena, so I go reverse and put them back in. I end sessions with chores, dumping the whethers. Then Fury gets to come out for more elementary training (a long time off, different issues, and etc makes us step back a bit in expectation) and then I have Fury put them in a holding pen for a final session with Rippa. Sometimes Fury gets another work, but both of them are fat and lazy from staying with my parents and I don't want her to tear her other knee from over use and lack of fitness.
Stephanie had some new lambs mixed in and two new, and large, whethers, who had obviously not been with the flock for long as they kind of worked on their own instead of staying with everyone. I wanted a bigger flock to start Rippa because she'd have more work and slow down a bit while we warmed up, and I wanted to leave these guys and the lambs alone, but had a hard time putting these guys in the pen. They were a touch lighter to me than to the dog, but since they didn't want to flock, they'd get too much pressure from me and Rippa and end up away from everyone else. I figured that would make Rippa have to watch them more and they were bigger so if we made mistakes, I'd handle it and so would they, so I gave up and kept them in my initial flock.
I've been gathering a lot of tools from new thoughts lately, but one thing I'm definitely going back to is the big stick. I got myself a new bean pole and had a much easier time getting Rippa to respect distance and my commands with a few reinforcements. I think the key is to read the situation and what you're trying to do when picking your tool. Right now I wanted to see so having the long stick there to reinforce me was good.
What I got out of the session:
What Rippa knows:
1. How to pick up sheep in either direction
2. How to balance herself, particularly if I am turned around and taking pressure off or clearly stopping
3. How to stay quiet in tight spaces
4. Her flank commands (go by and way to)
5. "Out" if I'm there to reinforce it
6. How to get runaway sheep by moving out more to go to head (yay! That's good stock sense!)
7. How to do long outruns to fetch sheep
8. To not bite (or to grip strategically on the heel) when in control
9. To take small steps and hold them in the face of stock challenging her
I'm really proud of this. All the years I worked the Fury, I couldn't get this. In fact, this calmness in tight spots is what I loved about how Rippa's dad worked. I definitely got what I wanted out of this litter. If only I could reinforce that "down" faster. I mean, I could, but . . . pick your battles.
What Rippa doesn't know:
1. To down on first command
2. To take flanks when I am not there to reinforce it
3. Zero idea what "there" means
4. Her rating commands (aka "easy" to slow down) - she'll slow down if I tell her "no" but not on command
5. "Out" unless I'm there to reinforce it when she feels out of control
6. How to handle sheep passing through fences (aka, they run, she panics)
7. How to do wide outruns (she comes in closer, but it works for her)
8. Not to bite and chase when she feels out of control
And whose fault is it that she doesn't know that stuff? MINE. And why did she quit me on cattle? Because all I did was force almost every one of these issues every time we trained. Goals for the future? Do a lot more of what she knows and work non what she doesn't know in baby steps. I don't think it will take a long time to fix these things (she had a "there", for example, and I don't really mind if she's tight on her outruns if it's effective and calm), so long as I do my part.
I then figured this out about the Fury:
What the Fury knows:
1. How to do long outruns to fetch sheep
2. How to do wide outruns (I think this is pretty natural to her)
3. Her way-to command
4. How to balance herself as long as she is pretty far off contact with the sheep
5. Her flank commands
6. "Walk-up" and "There" (but she doesn't know how to control the sheep on a drive)
7. Her rating commands
8. How to handle sheep passing through fences (we did a lot of work with this back in the day at Doug's when I got paid to work his dog)
(She totally blows off my flank command and takes a bit to "down" but she's being nice to the sheep and that's a good solid outrun. Pick your battles.)
What the Fury doesn't know:
1. How to down on first command (she did, but I think her psych gets the best of her)
2. That I can control my side of the sheep
3. Her flank commands if I am not there to reinforce it
4. Her go by command if I am between the sheep and the dog (she buzzes right by unless my timing is perfect, ignoring stick or anything - full panic)
5. Out
6. Not to body slam and chase when she's out of control (interestingly, she used to bite, but in her old age, she generally tries to use her body instead, which is calming for me)
7. How to stay quiet in tight places
Whose fault again? MINE. Some of this is from years of bad handling. Her go-by side is really bad and I know why.
The key now is to fix these things and learn from them. I have two very different dogs and it's a blessing to have to work it out with them. I definitely think the next pup will be a different story.
Talking about different dogs, I tried some Ben Means stuff on The Fury today. I put the sheep in the big chute at the end and had her go around them in the corners. If she got too edgy, I'd yank her on a leash and try again. It seems to work pretty well. She stayed latched onto the stock instead of me, and started to mind better. I don't want to over do it, but I kind of think she's exactly the kind of dog that needs this. For fun, I tried it with Rippa but she didn't need it and stayed calm in the corners. The attachment to the line also got her too interested in me. The Fury works less for me than Rippa does, and you wouldn't think that because Rippa's not crisp and responsive, but what I think matters a whole lot more to her than it does to her mother.
Rippa DOES need it on cattle, though. She gets so worked if she gets too tight and that's when it goes badly.
So that's where we're at today. I think my goal of getting the WTCh by the Fall might be a bit much now with the break, but Winter? Sure. I just have to make sure I get as many days in as I can and with as much positive and constructive work. I just read and article on WorkingAussieSource, "If you get 1% improvement every time you go out, you'll be 100% in 100 days." Let's do it. I feel confident I know what to do if I keep looking at what I have and what I'm doing wrong. I made a lot of mistakes early on in handling that led to bad habits (like chasing and biting out of control) and I STILL make mistakes (there's a reason Rippa doesn't do gate passages well . .. I don't prepare her or myself for what the sheep will do). But conscious attention to this will matter.
. . .
Okay, so I said I would ramble a bit, too, and I will.
Before the break, I was doing the thing I do where I ask "What's the point of all of this?" I know that I don't want to be the #1 trialing person in the world and I also know that I don't want a whole batch of dogs that I'd need to produce a solid line of dogs. Heck, breeding is stressful in and of itself. I've realized that I'm not the sort that wants to keep dogs in kennels, even if that means getting better performance out of them. I got into dogs as friends first and that's still my main thing. But over the course of the years, I've always says, "What's the truest thing to the dogs?" That's how I got out of showing in conformation and got into stockdogs. That's how I got into being more interested in the operations of cattle ranches than how to trial. Thing is, will I ever be a cattle woman? Will I need dogs for cows? If I get cows, it's going to be mostly for the dogs (I say mostly because I've ALWAYS wanted ranch life, before dogs, but I won't be doing dairy or special show cattle, get what I'm saying?)
Whenever I get to thinking like this, I'm tempted to quit. Not because I necessarily want to quit, but I have this thing that makes me go, "What's the end purpose here? Do you have one?"
I used to do a lot of art - but I gave it up in college in favor of social time and I didn't go back to it because I knew I wasn't going to practice enough to be in art shows and sell it and I also would prefer to be outdoors. Everything is this cost analysis to me - could I be enjoying myself or using that money wiser? If so, why am I still doing it?
Obviously, not everything has to have an end to the means. I LOVE computer games. I allow myself to play one (Civilization) because I love them so much that I'll lose days playing them - not sleeping, not eating . . . and it's not a good thing. But there's no end to that. Nobody is giving me a gold star for being good at a game I play by myself. In fact, my husband gives me negative stars because I could be doing something way more awesome. But it only costs me time - I don't get frustrated when I lose, it doesn't cost anything now that I have the game . . . and I spend a lot of it trying to problem solve to get better so I figure it's kind of good for me. Ahh, but there's the rub. It's kind of good for me.
Is stockdog stuff good for me? On the whole, probably not.
1. The pressure is enormous. Even away from other Aussie people, I feel myself having to defend myself and my dog for my breed choice, how she works, and if she's good enough. Sometimes it's not external, sometimes it's internal. But there's something in the culture that's ingrained in me that I can't just be like, "Hey, this is fun." It's always like, "This is of consequence." I think it's dog people. I don't ever really feel like that about my other hobbies ever. Bikes are fun! Climbing is fun! Hiking is fun! Even adventure racing - if you lose, hey, you are awesome! Nobody talks shit behind your back because of moves you made or didn't make or climbs you didn't send.
2. The community eats its own. Like I said about pressure, the dog club isn't exactly working hard on rewarding people's good intentions. A lot more negativity comes out of it. Going to social stuff like clinics, lessons, and trials can be hard because certain people like to comment a lot, whether they know what they're doing or not. I've been in dogs and this breed a good solid while and spent a lot of time learning, so you'd think when BS gets slung, it would bounce off, but the fact is . . . it sticks. I think about it. At a trial recently, I was picking The Fury up to get in the truck (she's always had a hard time getting in the back because she's short, and more so now that she's older) and this woman makes a comment about how I'm spoiling my dog again. I always spoiled her too much. Like, really? Did I ask your opinion? I LOVE Fury and my relationship. I think she's awesome. She thinks I'm awesome. I don't think she's spoiled at all. But here I am, months later, and it's still in my ears. And that's the most benign. I've been insulted in so many stupid ways - and it's simply not all that fun to hang around it - there's just too many people reinforcing each other to be like that, so I actively had tried to pull away as much as possible and pick my friends and circles wisely, while being as supportive as I can in the ways I wished I'd be supported.
3. It challenges a lot of my personality - and while it's good to be challenged and grow, we all have really ingrained tendencies that won't really go away. I'm a control freak. I'd do way better in obedience and agility and the dogs would probably like it because they'd be doing it for the cookies and praise and not because this thing inside of them tells them to do it. When I get nervous or lose control, I don't bite and chase, I run my mouth. That's bad for stockdogging especially because commands should be spare and reinforced. I was pretty damn good at showing dogs because yapping and precision weren't over the top every and the training required was minimal. I spent most of the time in the ring thinking, "My God, my dog looks SO good. How can the judge NOT think that?" and any psychotherapist will tell you that kind of positive self talk, especially if reinforced with that point as you go round the ring, is way better than the kind of negative work I do when I'm challenged in other dog stuff.
4. I can't just let my dog be a dog. People care a LOT about this stuff. They judge whether you're worthy to leave your mark and they tell you if you aren't. At the same time, I think it's silly. Especially when I read historical accounts of famous dogs and how low key everything used to be. But instead, I'm always like, "Hmm, how's my dog performing? Would I want another dog like this one? Where would I go elsewhere?" I work pretty hard at warning people off of getting so involved it ruins dog ownership for them in this way. I judge a lot and I'm very much into nonjudgement/nonattachment everywhere else.
So what's a girl to do? Take time off.
While I was taking time off, two things happened that kickstarted me again this round.
1. Kelly Hughes, a woman I very much respect for her training, attitude, and just overall awesome life balances, posted about her dog working at a trial as a sorting dog. In California, this seems to be uncool because a bad sort by a dog can upset the stock, but most other places it seems cool to do. I looked at her post and thought, "You know, that's what is missing here." At Kathy's, though I don't remember a lot of emphasis put on the "point" of doing it, Kathy would rotate you in during lessons as a sorting dog. The Fury would literally vibrate while she watched other dogs work, but she got a lot of chore/pen experience from putting sheep out and bringing them back, etc. It wasn't all trial training and that's the stuff that tells you if you've got a useful dog, I think. So like . . . Kristin, dial back on the trialing training and remember that Aussies need and excel at chores. All the finite stuff comes along much later. Also, this is another key reason why I need my own stock at some point.
2. I mentioned to Elizabeth Robinson about my doggy angst and she gave me some advice that made it all better. Instead of worrying about why things wouldn't work out how I wanted them or whatever, maybe realize that they'll work out however they're supposed to. If I don't want to breed a lot of dogs and I don't want to be the best trialler, there's still a place for me. Over time, I may take on client dogs and help other people learn to do this. If I get a farm and stock, it'll need to pay for itself some way and this is a good way. I'll be able to create my own community that doesn't eat its own (a specialty of mine). If I think about this period of life as a continued internship where I'm learning everything I need to to eventually mentor people of similar mind and greater need (who do want to work dogs on a ranch or in a trial), I'll be better off. That's my end I need. That's the part where it's like, "Why are you doing this?" Because I'm studying to understand this stuff. That's why.
So that's where I'm at.
I'm going to keep at it with my dogs and look forward to the time where I take on another one. I'm going to sit tight and take care of finances and look for a situation that works for my family that allows me to have my own stock close to home. And I'm going to spend an awful lot of time reading, asking questions, and talking to cattlemen who need/use dogs to understand what it is I'm working toward (while learning the economics and operations of cattle so that when it's time, I don't lose my shirt).
And I'll have fun doing it.
A couple reasons:
1. So much pressure. I'd done the trialing, entered the one trial I really shouldn't have, and spent a lot of time training for the trial instead of training my dogs. I started questioning why I was doing this, whether my dogs were any good, etc, etc.
2. This translated to me being mean to my dogs. Fury can handle it, we'll get into that later, but Rippa shuts down when I shut her down. It's not fair and I knew it.
3. I was having really rough first trimester and it made me not want to do anything - my timing was off, I felt sick, and just . . .ehh. (Yes, I was pregnant - I say was because I lost it in the second trimester. That's kind of a bummer, but I am happy it happened to be honest - I was not ready emotionally or physically the way I wanted to be so this gives me a chance to get there.)
4. I was in a major work crunch - literally could not imagine taking the hour commute to cattle (two hour to ducks/sheep) and the hour of working while there.
5. I actually went on vacation for 2 weeks, so there's that, too.
The time off allowed me to chill. I'll talk about that later. I worked on my relationship with Rippa - from being more patient and kind to her, rewarding her for being nice and noticing it, to working on my expectations of her obedience. The results speak for themselves. Both dogs are way less cranky to each other than they can be, Rippa has been perky and happier than I've seen in a long while, and some long time behavior stuff (especially her dislike for dogs in her face) is going away. She's more confident. My job was to build her up and it helped.
Steph's neighbors got goats - friendly goats. There's nothing The Fury likes more than giving goats a good time . . . but she didn't because I asked her not to.
I always start with Rippa at Stephanie's because we have to get sheep out of their pen that has a shed around it and we've worked long enough that it's old hat for her to do it. She pushes them out of the pen, at which point they shoot across the field and she has to gather them back while I sort the ones I don't want back in. I used to try to sort out of the pen, but I think Stephanie sorts differently than I learned at Kathy's and the leader sheep tend to hang back and I end up with the light and spazzy sheep out in the arena, so I go reverse and put them back in. I end sessions with chores, dumping the whethers. Then Fury gets to come out for more elementary training (a long time off, different issues, and etc makes us step back a bit in expectation) and then I have Fury put them in a holding pen for a final session with Rippa. Sometimes Fury gets another work, but both of them are fat and lazy from staying with my parents and I don't want her to tear her other knee from over use and lack of fitness.
Stephanie had some new lambs mixed in and two new, and large, whethers, who had obviously not been with the flock for long as they kind of worked on their own instead of staying with everyone. I wanted a bigger flock to start Rippa because she'd have more work and slow down a bit while we warmed up, and I wanted to leave these guys and the lambs alone, but had a hard time putting these guys in the pen. They were a touch lighter to me than to the dog, but since they didn't want to flock, they'd get too much pressure from me and Rippa and end up away from everyone else. I figured that would make Rippa have to watch them more and they were bigger so if we made mistakes, I'd handle it and so would they, so I gave up and kept them in my initial flock.
I've been gathering a lot of tools from new thoughts lately, but one thing I'm definitely going back to is the big stick. I got myself a new bean pole and had a much easier time getting Rippa to respect distance and my commands with a few reinforcements. I think the key is to read the situation and what you're trying to do when picking your tool. Right now I wanted to see so having the long stick there to reinforce me was good.
What I got out of the session:
What Rippa knows:
1. How to pick up sheep in either direction
2. How to balance herself, particularly if I am turned around and taking pressure off or clearly stopping
3. How to stay quiet in tight spaces
4. Her flank commands (go by and way to)
5. "Out" if I'm there to reinforce it
6. How to get runaway sheep by moving out more to go to head (yay! That's good stock sense!)
7. How to do long outruns to fetch sheep
8. To not bite (or to grip strategically on the heel) when in control
9. To take small steps and hold them in the face of stock challenging her
I'm really proud of this. All the years I worked the Fury, I couldn't get this. In fact, this calmness in tight spots is what I loved about how Rippa's dad worked. I definitely got what I wanted out of this litter. If only I could reinforce that "down" faster. I mean, I could, but . . . pick your battles.
What Rippa doesn't know:
1. To down on first command
2. To take flanks when I am not there to reinforce it
3. Zero idea what "there" means
4. Her rating commands (aka "easy" to slow down) - she'll slow down if I tell her "no" but not on command
5. "Out" unless I'm there to reinforce it when she feels out of control
6. How to handle sheep passing through fences (aka, they run, she panics)
7. How to do wide outruns (she comes in closer, but it works for her)
8. Not to bite and chase when she feels out of control
And whose fault is it that she doesn't know that stuff? MINE. And why did she quit me on cattle? Because all I did was force almost every one of these issues every time we trained. Goals for the future? Do a lot more of what she knows and work non what she doesn't know in baby steps. I don't think it will take a long time to fix these things (she had a "there", for example, and I don't really mind if she's tight on her outruns if it's effective and calm), so long as I do my part.
I then figured this out about the Fury:
What the Fury knows:
1. How to do long outruns to fetch sheep
2. How to do wide outruns (I think this is pretty natural to her)
3. Her way-to command
4. How to balance herself as long as she is pretty far off contact with the sheep
5. Her flank commands
6. "Walk-up" and "There" (but she doesn't know how to control the sheep on a drive)
7. Her rating commands
8. How to handle sheep passing through fences (we did a lot of work with this back in the day at Doug's when I got paid to work his dog)
(She totally blows off my flank command and takes a bit to "down" but she's being nice to the sheep and that's a good solid outrun. Pick your battles.)
What the Fury doesn't know:
1. How to down on first command (she did, but I think her psych gets the best of her)
2. That I can control my side of the sheep
3. Her flank commands if I am not there to reinforce it
4. Her go by command if I am between the sheep and the dog (she buzzes right by unless my timing is perfect, ignoring stick or anything - full panic)
5. Out
6. Not to body slam and chase when she's out of control (interestingly, she used to bite, but in her old age, she generally tries to use her body instead, which is calming for me)
7. How to stay quiet in tight places
Whose fault again? MINE. Some of this is from years of bad handling. Her go-by side is really bad and I know why.
The key now is to fix these things and learn from them. I have two very different dogs and it's a blessing to have to work it out with them. I definitely think the next pup will be a different story.
Talking about different dogs, I tried some Ben Means stuff on The Fury today. I put the sheep in the big chute at the end and had her go around them in the corners. If she got too edgy, I'd yank her on a leash and try again. It seems to work pretty well. She stayed latched onto the stock instead of me, and started to mind better. I don't want to over do it, but I kind of think she's exactly the kind of dog that needs this. For fun, I tried it with Rippa but she didn't need it and stayed calm in the corners. The attachment to the line also got her too interested in me. The Fury works less for me than Rippa does, and you wouldn't think that because Rippa's not crisp and responsive, but what I think matters a whole lot more to her than it does to her mother.
Rippa DOES need it on cattle, though. She gets so worked if she gets too tight and that's when it goes badly.
So that's where we're at today. I think my goal of getting the WTCh by the Fall might be a bit much now with the break, but Winter? Sure. I just have to make sure I get as many days in as I can and with as much positive and constructive work. I just read and article on WorkingAussieSource, "If you get 1% improvement every time you go out, you'll be 100% in 100 days." Let's do it. I feel confident I know what to do if I keep looking at what I have and what I'm doing wrong. I made a lot of mistakes early on in handling that led to bad habits (like chasing and biting out of control) and I STILL make mistakes (there's a reason Rippa doesn't do gate passages well . .. I don't prepare her or myself for what the sheep will do). But conscious attention to this will matter.
. . .
Okay, so I said I would ramble a bit, too, and I will.
Before the break, I was doing the thing I do where I ask "What's the point of all of this?" I know that I don't want to be the #1 trialing person in the world and I also know that I don't want a whole batch of dogs that I'd need to produce a solid line of dogs. Heck, breeding is stressful in and of itself. I've realized that I'm not the sort that wants to keep dogs in kennels, even if that means getting better performance out of them. I got into dogs as friends first and that's still my main thing. But over the course of the years, I've always says, "What's the truest thing to the dogs?" That's how I got out of showing in conformation and got into stockdogs. That's how I got into being more interested in the operations of cattle ranches than how to trial. Thing is, will I ever be a cattle woman? Will I need dogs for cows? If I get cows, it's going to be mostly for the dogs (I say mostly because I've ALWAYS wanted ranch life, before dogs, but I won't be doing dairy or special show cattle, get what I'm saying?)
Whenever I get to thinking like this, I'm tempted to quit. Not because I necessarily want to quit, but I have this thing that makes me go, "What's the end purpose here? Do you have one?"
I used to do a lot of art - but I gave it up in college in favor of social time and I didn't go back to it because I knew I wasn't going to practice enough to be in art shows and sell it and I also would prefer to be outdoors. Everything is this cost analysis to me - could I be enjoying myself or using that money wiser? If so, why am I still doing it?
Obviously, not everything has to have an end to the means. I LOVE computer games. I allow myself to play one (Civilization) because I love them so much that I'll lose days playing them - not sleeping, not eating . . . and it's not a good thing. But there's no end to that. Nobody is giving me a gold star for being good at a game I play by myself. In fact, my husband gives me negative stars because I could be doing something way more awesome. But it only costs me time - I don't get frustrated when I lose, it doesn't cost anything now that I have the game . . . and I spend a lot of it trying to problem solve to get better so I figure it's kind of good for me. Ahh, but there's the rub. It's kind of good for me.
Is stockdog stuff good for me? On the whole, probably not.
1. The pressure is enormous. Even away from other Aussie people, I feel myself having to defend myself and my dog for my breed choice, how she works, and if she's good enough. Sometimes it's not external, sometimes it's internal. But there's something in the culture that's ingrained in me that I can't just be like, "Hey, this is fun." It's always like, "This is of consequence." I think it's dog people. I don't ever really feel like that about my other hobbies ever. Bikes are fun! Climbing is fun! Hiking is fun! Even adventure racing - if you lose, hey, you are awesome! Nobody talks shit behind your back because of moves you made or didn't make or climbs you didn't send.
2. The community eats its own. Like I said about pressure, the dog club isn't exactly working hard on rewarding people's good intentions. A lot more negativity comes out of it. Going to social stuff like clinics, lessons, and trials can be hard because certain people like to comment a lot, whether they know what they're doing or not. I've been in dogs and this breed a good solid while and spent a lot of time learning, so you'd think when BS gets slung, it would bounce off, but the fact is . . . it sticks. I think about it. At a trial recently, I was picking The Fury up to get in the truck (she's always had a hard time getting in the back because she's short, and more so now that she's older) and this woman makes a comment about how I'm spoiling my dog again. I always spoiled her too much. Like, really? Did I ask your opinion? I LOVE Fury and my relationship. I think she's awesome. She thinks I'm awesome. I don't think she's spoiled at all. But here I am, months later, and it's still in my ears. And that's the most benign. I've been insulted in so many stupid ways - and it's simply not all that fun to hang around it - there's just too many people reinforcing each other to be like that, so I actively had tried to pull away as much as possible and pick my friends and circles wisely, while being as supportive as I can in the ways I wished I'd be supported.
3. It challenges a lot of my personality - and while it's good to be challenged and grow, we all have really ingrained tendencies that won't really go away. I'm a control freak. I'd do way better in obedience and agility and the dogs would probably like it because they'd be doing it for the cookies and praise and not because this thing inside of them tells them to do it. When I get nervous or lose control, I don't bite and chase, I run my mouth. That's bad for stockdogging especially because commands should be spare and reinforced. I was pretty damn good at showing dogs because yapping and precision weren't over the top every and the training required was minimal. I spent most of the time in the ring thinking, "My God, my dog looks SO good. How can the judge NOT think that?" and any psychotherapist will tell you that kind of positive self talk, especially if reinforced with that point as you go round the ring, is way better than the kind of negative work I do when I'm challenged in other dog stuff.
4. I can't just let my dog be a dog. People care a LOT about this stuff. They judge whether you're worthy to leave your mark and they tell you if you aren't. At the same time, I think it's silly. Especially when I read historical accounts of famous dogs and how low key everything used to be. But instead, I'm always like, "Hmm, how's my dog performing? Would I want another dog like this one? Where would I go elsewhere?" I work pretty hard at warning people off of getting so involved it ruins dog ownership for them in this way. I judge a lot and I'm very much into nonjudgement/nonattachment everywhere else.
So what's a girl to do? Take time off.
While I was taking time off, two things happened that kickstarted me again this round.
1. Kelly Hughes, a woman I very much respect for her training, attitude, and just overall awesome life balances, posted about her dog working at a trial as a sorting dog. In California, this seems to be uncool because a bad sort by a dog can upset the stock, but most other places it seems cool to do. I looked at her post and thought, "You know, that's what is missing here." At Kathy's, though I don't remember a lot of emphasis put on the "point" of doing it, Kathy would rotate you in during lessons as a sorting dog. The Fury would literally vibrate while she watched other dogs work, but she got a lot of chore/pen experience from putting sheep out and bringing them back, etc. It wasn't all trial training and that's the stuff that tells you if you've got a useful dog, I think. So like . . . Kristin, dial back on the trialing training and remember that Aussies need and excel at chores. All the finite stuff comes along much later. Also, this is another key reason why I need my own stock at some point.
2. I mentioned to Elizabeth Robinson about my doggy angst and she gave me some advice that made it all better. Instead of worrying about why things wouldn't work out how I wanted them or whatever, maybe realize that they'll work out however they're supposed to. If I don't want to breed a lot of dogs and I don't want to be the best trialler, there's still a place for me. Over time, I may take on client dogs and help other people learn to do this. If I get a farm and stock, it'll need to pay for itself some way and this is a good way. I'll be able to create my own community that doesn't eat its own (a specialty of mine). If I think about this period of life as a continued internship where I'm learning everything I need to to eventually mentor people of similar mind and greater need (who do want to work dogs on a ranch or in a trial), I'll be better off. That's my end I need. That's the part where it's like, "Why are you doing this?" Because I'm studying to understand this stuff. That's why.
So that's where I'm at.
I'm going to keep at it with my dogs and look forward to the time where I take on another one. I'm going to sit tight and take care of finances and look for a situation that works for my family that allows me to have my own stock close to home. And I'm going to spend an awful lot of time reading, asking questions, and talking to cattlemen who need/use dogs to understand what it is I'm working toward (while learning the economics and operations of cattle so that when it's time, I don't lose my shirt).
And I'll have fun doing it.
Monday, June 15, 2015
Back to Basics Again
Here's why I'm still a mediocre trainer at best: I entered my dog before she was ready in a trial, put too much pressure on her, and caused her to mostly shut down on me, not because she doesn't want to work, but because she doesn't know what I'm trying to do and I'm telling her too harshly - or so I think.
I have taken a break from stock for a few weeks (and with my current schedule, I expect it to be longer with spurts in between) for a number of reasons. Her shut down, me feeling sick constantly, no time, and me thinking I'd be leaving on vacation and thinking a break is a good thing. But we canceled the vacation because of my work and how I'm feeling so that's off the table.
I have been feeling better and better now and so today I meant to go out and work sheep and ducks - but work called me away before I could make it to the ducks.
This was the first full session on sheep for both dogs in a long time and I had a couple goals:
1. Short works
2. Emphasize fundamentals
3. Test to see where we're at.
I started with Rippa. She did a magnificent job doing her pen work and helping me sort, as usual. We then backed up expectations and I set her up for short outruns with me in between the stock and the dog . . . and I brought back the BIG POLE WITH A BOTTLE ON IT.
It is so interesting seeing how my handling is as inconsistent as anything. When I use the short stick, I am so much more aggressive with my body language and voice than I am with the long pole. Mostly, I think, because I have so much more control with the long pole that I can be relaxed (at least, with Rippa). I can have a little bit of poor timing or be behind and still be there to kick her out if I need to be.
Rippa's also been on a bit of a doggy boot camp in her day to day life because as we all get, I've been relaxed with expectations of her in an informal setting. She had really crisp responses to stuff most of the time, but it was clear that foundations eroded.
Her outruns were really clean if they were set up right (more here later). She was super good in Stephanie's tight holding pen. She was really good at fetching, and if she got in tight, all I had to do was poke the stick in her direction and she'd literally jump out of the pressure area and go around wide.
So I started seeing what her drive looked like and it was bad. She got kind of mad at me for having her circle out of contact with the stock and when I laid her down and got out of the way for her drive/walk up, she would stall out, not believing in me or in the job. She'd get a couple steps and if the sheep started running, she'd ignore me and blast through them to get to head and bring them back. She was really good if I could get a couple steps and then before they started running get her to flank around them, but it's definitely back to baby steps with the drive. She feels out of control and she blows me off when that happens so obviously I haven't been making her feel like my side of the partnership is working. She's not being a jerk when she blows me off, she just doesn't want to lose the stock.
So, I think we're going to stay working on sheep (and ducks when I can) and go back to cattle when I have this stuff sorted. Aka: good outruns, solid understanding of the drive, responsive to "out." From what I got out of her today, I don't think it will take very long: IF I can get my handling right and think through what I'm setting her up with.
The Fury got some really good work in today, though I made some big mistakes. We also worked on outruns, but she would do her close-in dive thing because the long stick doesn't really work with her. I've used it too poorly for too long that she just squints her eyes, lowers her head, and pulls back her ears and runs straight into it. I find with her that it's better to just use body pressure to remind her where I am and back it up with the stick when she feels like I'm off her jock enough.
But she really, really feels the pressure of the animals when she gets close to them. Like really. So, I though, well, let's work on that small take pen. I've found that as long as I am calm, the dogs get comfortable with the stock in small places and can take more up-close pressure without acting like a fool. This is the first time I have tried it with the Fury.
I had a really hard time getting her to enter the pen calmly. There was a lot of corrections, kicking her back out of the pen, setting it up again, again and again until she'd come into the pen quietly and lay down without trying to get at the sheep.
The Fury hasn't been on sheep in a good long while and she was very, very amped. I let her go by around them in the tight space and she basically just went WAY too hard. She would hit noses and heels equally to get them to move FAST out of her way, and while she wasn't being overly hard with them, it was really chaotic, so I had to do a lot of corrections when the plan was to be calm. I think that was a mistake. The Fury has a lot of bite to her, but only when *I* put pressure on her. I'll get to the proof of this in a second.
Stephanie had a long line on the fence so I grabbed it and thought maybe I'd try the Ben Means thing about walking them behind the stock and correcting until you got calm behavior. This was also a mistake for a couple reasons: too many sheep in the pen, leaving the whether in there with horns that would turn and challenge her and ram her if she let him (so I was balancing keeping her back while not letting her lose power and have him charge her), and the pen was just too small for the goal. I did it for a bit and the sheep and the Fury felt the pressure too much, I saw I'd made a mistake, put the leash away with Fury on a down in the gateway, and came back to try it differently.
This time I remembered that The Fury's not going to do any damage to the sheep even if she gets in there like an idiot nipping at anything in front of her face ( heck, she barely has any front teeth left anyway), so I should just CALM down and let it settle like I did with Rippa. And so I did. When she went to nip something, I told her "no" firmly, but not panicky, and would you look at that, I had her quietly working the perimeter of the pens. I had her lay down at the gate while I opened it and told her she was a good dog, and then .. . . WHAM . . . that damn whether got his revenge on her, smacking her in the ribs. The Fury, being apparently still a total hardass, barely even noticed it and was still focused on me telling her I was good, but I couldn't let that stand, so I told her to get him, and she happily obliged.
From there, I got some really nice fetch work out of her. She's learning she can balance to me and the sheep and not just run hard at everything, and that I'll hold my end of the deal.
I thought to myself, "Yeah, there's no way I can get to open with her" because she's so unable to calmly walk into them right now, but you know what? I always think stuff like that. Fury's listening to me, she's learning stuff despite our bad habits, and maybe we just might. Not bad for a 12.5 year old dog.
Watching her challenge the sheep and get her fetch on . . . I've got a lot of use left in her. . . and I'm so glad to because she's definitely a different dog than Rippa and it's good to have different handling challenges if I'm ever going to be more than mediocre. :)
I have taken a break from stock for a few weeks (and with my current schedule, I expect it to be longer with spurts in between) for a number of reasons. Her shut down, me feeling sick constantly, no time, and me thinking I'd be leaving on vacation and thinking a break is a good thing. But we canceled the vacation because of my work and how I'm feeling so that's off the table.
I have been feeling better and better now and so today I meant to go out and work sheep and ducks - but work called me away before I could make it to the ducks.
This was the first full session on sheep for both dogs in a long time and I had a couple goals:
1. Short works
2. Emphasize fundamentals
3. Test to see where we're at.
I started with Rippa. She did a magnificent job doing her pen work and helping me sort, as usual. We then backed up expectations and I set her up for short outruns with me in between the stock and the dog . . . and I brought back the BIG POLE WITH A BOTTLE ON IT.
It is so interesting seeing how my handling is as inconsistent as anything. When I use the short stick, I am so much more aggressive with my body language and voice than I am with the long pole. Mostly, I think, because I have so much more control with the long pole that I can be relaxed (at least, with Rippa). I can have a little bit of poor timing or be behind and still be there to kick her out if I need to be.
Rippa's also been on a bit of a doggy boot camp in her day to day life because as we all get, I've been relaxed with expectations of her in an informal setting. She had really crisp responses to stuff most of the time, but it was clear that foundations eroded.
Her outruns were really clean if they were set up right (more here later). She was super good in Stephanie's tight holding pen. She was really good at fetching, and if she got in tight, all I had to do was poke the stick in her direction and she'd literally jump out of the pressure area and go around wide.
So I started seeing what her drive looked like and it was bad. She got kind of mad at me for having her circle out of contact with the stock and when I laid her down and got out of the way for her drive/walk up, she would stall out, not believing in me or in the job. She'd get a couple steps and if the sheep started running, she'd ignore me and blast through them to get to head and bring them back. She was really good if I could get a couple steps and then before they started running get her to flank around them, but it's definitely back to baby steps with the drive. She feels out of control and she blows me off when that happens so obviously I haven't been making her feel like my side of the partnership is working. She's not being a jerk when she blows me off, she just doesn't want to lose the stock.
So, I think we're going to stay working on sheep (and ducks when I can) and go back to cattle when I have this stuff sorted. Aka: good outruns, solid understanding of the drive, responsive to "out." From what I got out of her today, I don't think it will take very long: IF I can get my handling right and think through what I'm setting her up with.
The Fury got some really good work in today, though I made some big mistakes. We also worked on outruns, but she would do her close-in dive thing because the long stick doesn't really work with her. I've used it too poorly for too long that she just squints her eyes, lowers her head, and pulls back her ears and runs straight into it. I find with her that it's better to just use body pressure to remind her where I am and back it up with the stick when she feels like I'm off her jock enough.
But she really, really feels the pressure of the animals when she gets close to them. Like really. So, I though, well, let's work on that small take pen. I've found that as long as I am calm, the dogs get comfortable with the stock in small places and can take more up-close pressure without acting like a fool. This is the first time I have tried it with the Fury.
I had a really hard time getting her to enter the pen calmly. There was a lot of corrections, kicking her back out of the pen, setting it up again, again and again until she'd come into the pen quietly and lay down without trying to get at the sheep.
The Fury hasn't been on sheep in a good long while and she was very, very amped. I let her go by around them in the tight space and she basically just went WAY too hard. She would hit noses and heels equally to get them to move FAST out of her way, and while she wasn't being overly hard with them, it was really chaotic, so I had to do a lot of corrections when the plan was to be calm. I think that was a mistake. The Fury has a lot of bite to her, but only when *I* put pressure on her. I'll get to the proof of this in a second.
Stephanie had a long line on the fence so I grabbed it and thought maybe I'd try the Ben Means thing about walking them behind the stock and correcting until you got calm behavior. This was also a mistake for a couple reasons: too many sheep in the pen, leaving the whether in there with horns that would turn and challenge her and ram her if she let him (so I was balancing keeping her back while not letting her lose power and have him charge her), and the pen was just too small for the goal. I did it for a bit and the sheep and the Fury felt the pressure too much, I saw I'd made a mistake, put the leash away with Fury on a down in the gateway, and came back to try it differently.
This time I remembered that The Fury's not going to do any damage to the sheep even if she gets in there like an idiot nipping at anything in front of her face ( heck, she barely has any front teeth left anyway), so I should just CALM down and let it settle like I did with Rippa. And so I did. When she went to nip something, I told her "no" firmly, but not panicky, and would you look at that, I had her quietly working the perimeter of the pens. I had her lay down at the gate while I opened it and told her she was a good dog, and then .. . . WHAM . . . that damn whether got his revenge on her, smacking her in the ribs. The Fury, being apparently still a total hardass, barely even noticed it and was still focused on me telling her I was good, but I couldn't let that stand, so I told her to get him, and she happily obliged.
From there, I got some really nice fetch work out of her. She's learning she can balance to me and the sheep and not just run hard at everything, and that I'll hold my end of the deal.
I thought to myself, "Yeah, there's no way I can get to open with her" because she's so unable to calmly walk into them right now, but you know what? I always think stuff like that. Fury's listening to me, she's learning stuff despite our bad habits, and maybe we just might. Not bad for a 12.5 year old dog.
Watching her challenge the sheep and get her fetch on . . . I've got a lot of use left in her. . . and I'm so glad to because she's definitely a different dog than Rippa and it's good to have different handling challenges if I'm ever going to be more than mediocre. :)
Sunday, May 31, 2015
COAST Trial: Trial #3
So, I last left you wondering if I hadn’t broken my dog because she was
quitting me in the “I don’t get it, I love you, can I do something else for you”
way.
Dustin and Shannon took me and worked with me for three or so hours prior to the trial and showed me my #1 biggest problem was that I was micromanaging Rippa and that I needed to shut up and stay calm (a theme)?
I want to be like, “Man, I wish I had a different personality” because honestly, that was my problem growing up, too. People always told me I was annoying and that I’m intense. I think I’ve got it channeled now with people to a point where I’m more interesting and focused ( I hope?), but it has only been the past few years. I guess it wouldn’t surprise me that my default is to be annoying and intense on stock with the dogs. Poor dogs.
Moreover, I get real neurotic about Rippa and this whole thing in general. Like, “Ugh, I broke her. I quit.” Or, “Maybe she’s just not good enough inherently.” I feel like I don’t know enough to make a call one way or the other. I keep telling you I had lots of positive reinforcement on her early on, but now that I’m performing sub-par with her, I’m like, “Maybe she doesn’t have it all going on,” when I think it’s more to do with me and her opportunities.
Or am I just really good at making excuses? My brain, it asplodes!
Anyway, I’m not getting another dog anytime soon or making puppies, so it is what it is.
Anyway, so WHAT happened at the trial? I didn’t try that hard, that’s what. Nobody (not even the Fury Q’d) but I was pretty damn happy with what I got and I feel like that’s all that matters.
I entered The Fury on ducks and the first run, she just totally spaced. She’s a very, very active senior dog, and it’s not like her to space, but whatever caused it, wasn’t worth pushing her. Also, the damn ducks kept getting back into the take pen because the door wouldn’t close. So I left her happy and called it a run. The second run, she did super awesome, but she was too slow to get around them and put them through the chute. I tried it a couple times, but I guess I was late on my commands because I’m not used to The Fury being a bit pokey and rather than push the issue at a trial, I again was happy with how it went and quit it there. I probably could have done better had I adapted to what my dog was giving me, but I went into this trial thinking I was going to not even go, so anything I got that was happy was good.
Rippa –
On ducks the first run, they kept flipping back to the back fence, which the judge later told me is a normal thing and the thing to do there is to have her fetch to me. I tried really hard to use Rippa and I to hold the ducks like a wall and have them make a choice to go to the panels instead. My ducks at home will do that, so I guess I have to train the ducks and dogs to flip back because it’s so common and practice dealing with it. Okay. Either way, psyched on how Rippa did. Plus, the damn ducks went back into that take pen again. Twice. I watched Doug Manley handle it when this happened and he didn’t miss a beat . . . just got it handled like it was nothing. I want to be that cool.
Second run was better, but I was late on sending the ducks to the chute and sent Rippa on a GoBy, but because I was late, she didn’t have great control and I didn’t help keep her off and it just didn’t go well, so I quit. Again, I was happy that she was working and happy.
Mostly, I need to be a better handler and think faster with changing conditions like Doug did. That comes with experience at trials, I think.
Cattle were interesting. They were really scared of people and you couldn’t get too close at all. Dustin told me going into it to try really hard not to use any commands, just my body and keep it under control, so that was the plan. I watched enough runs that I figured if I could keep them moving and stay at the back, I’d be fine, at least until the center pen.
Rippa, considering that she had quit me going into this week, was fantastic. She took her commands really well and kept them moving. A lot of dogs would get the cows stuck and do a lot of yelling at them and that never happened with us. She did, however, lose it when she felt like they were getting away from her (I’m sure I was affecting it, too, but again, I’m still clueless at this) and she’d go to head and mess stuff up, but we made the first panel, and got close enough to the second panel that I called it good (most people were having a ROUGH time), made a half-hearted attempt at the center pen, and then repenned them. We were the only team, I think, that AM trial to be able to repen the cattle – they were nuts. So I gave myself and Rippa some gold stars and we were happy with that, even though it wasn’t a Q. Interestingly, my tactics let me get really close to the cattle compared to other people, again, I was pretty shocked and not resilient enough to changed tactics when I figured this out to my advantage, but eh . . . it takes time.
The second run, the cows had settled down and were easier for everyone to manage. We didn’t do as well this time, but I did get first and second panel with some drama in between (again, Rippa would stop being good and run to head when she felt out of control, making a mess), got an attempt at the center pen and I was repenning when time got called.
Everyone that trialled ran really close to the 10 minute mark, that’s how the cows were, so again, I was really happy with our runs. I know I made mistakes, I tried to fix them – sometimes I just gave up and went with it depending on how Rippa was feeling, and I also used a lot more commands than I wanted to going into it, but Rippa was happy to work with me and that’s all I wanted. We were a team. I knew we were going to go home and spend a lot of time working on fundamentals for both me and her so we got through the trial without embarrassing ourselves, I hope.
I’ve not really felt like working dogs since then, partly because I don’t feel so good and I think it’s translating to my handling, and partly just because I have a lot of other stuff going on. I’m going to be gone this week and then on vacation for two weeks, so I’m kind of thinking the break will be good for them and me, because I really need to get my training act together.
Dustin made a good point: his dogs live in kennels. When they come out, they work, and so there’s that relationship. Whereas I’m always working with my dogs because they live with me. I go to the beach with them, take them on hikes, play frisbee, etc. They have lots of other fun things to do, so if it stops being fun, they’re more inclined to blow it off. I’d not really thought of it that way, but it’s true. And I also let my training erode. Rippa isn’t super responsive to certain things because we’re casual about things. So I’ve been working on that, making her work kind of all the time and respond in a snappy way.
I'm about to talk about a respected judge by name. I've been trying to decide if I should leave it alone or not, but she was quite forthcoming about her expectations and opinions, so I don't think this is anything that if she finds out I said will be hurtful or contrary to how she wishes to be perceived. And I think it's an interesting educational point that came out of the trial that I hadn't worried about until this point. (Well, I actually had worried about, but the last two trials had made me feel secure that my worries were needless and this undid that.) I figure it might well be useful to friends trialing in the same situation anyway.
The biggest takeaway for this trial was that I learned that judges DO matter - both to how they score you and to your experience. Previously I figured, eh, it's a few points here and there, what's the difference? We trialed under Joan Carillo and at the handler’s meeting she specifically said she didn’t want to see biting of the cows, especially face or tail biting. Erk. Dustin and Shannon both encourage appropriate hits (not the tail biting) and power and so do I. This was going to be awkward. We like dogs with the courage to back up the threat.
I timed for both judges as much as I could, and Joan was very, very down on Shannon and Dustin’s dogs for biting to anyone within earshot of her. I watched a LOT of dogs run at cows and get nowhere because they wouldn’t bite them, but Shannon and Dustin’s dogs did and they never got stuck (it might have gotten messy, so flip side to that coin, but yeah), and same with Rippa. And they didn’t need a heel bite, the cows were turning to face the dogs off. If your dog didn’t hit them, they’d just stay like that until they figured the dog wouldn’t do anything and start doing their own thing.
Was there gratuitous biting? Yeah, but I personally felt better about that than not being able to move the cows at all – and these were all quite green dogs – they’ll grow into controlling it more over time with experience and miles. No blood drawn, nothing horrible, forgivable, in my opinion.
But there was definitely a dark cloud on us for having dogs like that. Shannon and Dustin both were not psyched on how they were treated by her at the trial- Dustin got right back at her at one point when Joan yelled at him to watch the biting and he yelled back, "How is the dog supposed to move the cattle?!"
I have to admit that I felt a bit “slinky” when I drove away this time because even though I was happy with how things went, I didn’t really want to stick around for awards and see my low score (I already knew I didn’t Q anywhere) because my dog didn’t let the cows get stuck – nor did I want to hear about it - it wasn't going to do anything for me or the dog. It made me feel crummy enough that I don't think I'll trial under her again. Had she just made her point and let it be or called time, it would have been better - for me - than knowing how much disdain she was willing to share with others for it, and making me wonder what she was talking about to others about me and my dog. She's been at this a long time and is a respected judge, and, no, every bite that happened didn't need to happen. I respect that is her thing, but it made me just FEEL bad as a novice trialer with a novice dog who can't really control such things in that scenario yet. Is the solution to just don't trial? I don't think so.
I guess trials aren’t the be-all and end all, anyway. I’m proud of Rippa for having some real bite and presence to her. I’ve said it before, it’s not just the bite for her. She can look at stock across the arena and they’re watching her. She’s not lying to them about needing to move. I don’t think it’s all that useful in most trial scenarios because dogs with less power can get it done (especially because people try to find nice, compliant stock for trials), but it’s something I know ranchers want and need and I know it’s not a given in Aussies, so I am proud to have it and I won’t be training it out of her. I really need to figure out how to get her balance back in tune, because if she stayed off the stock more naturally, she'd not feel compelled to hit them as much, but I am happy that she's willing to get a poll or a heel when she thinks it's needed. You can't train that kind of confidence.
I will say, conversely, that so far my relationship with the judges at trials has also MADE the trials - because I tend to interact a lot, both because I'm trying to learn and I'm willing to be vulnerable in order to do that, because I like to help out with timing,etc, and simply because they set the tone. This was just one bad experience for me and that's okay. Something to learn from. I used to keep a notebook when I did conformation about which judges to go under or not, and it might just be the same with stockdog trials.
In fact, I told Terry Martin recently that I was really appreciative of her dogs being able to take me as far as I want to go with this. I got Slash V lines because I was coming out of conformation and I liked the look of her working dogs more than others that I’d seen. They are a difficult line to have for your first working Aussie, that’s for sure – at least mine are, guardy, reserved, very very aware of their surroundings and reactive to them, but I’ve never once been left wishing I had more dog than I did. I want to learn to train dogs to work stock? Great, we got this. Cattle? Yeah, we got that, too. Real ranch work? Yes. In fact, they’ve also been the best trail and adventure dogs I could have asked for. They don’t get lost, they naturally track their location and trails, and they naturally stick with you.
I get comments all the time about what nice trail dogs I have, and I don’t take it for granted. Yes, some training goes into it, but if your dog’s not interested in really meeting other dogs or people, devoted to specifically making you happy, stays on the trail, and stays with you, you can’t go wrong.
Dustin and Shannon took me and worked with me for three or so hours prior to the trial and showed me my #1 biggest problem was that I was micromanaging Rippa and that I needed to shut up and stay calm (a theme)?
I want to be like, “Man, I wish I had a different personality” because honestly, that was my problem growing up, too. People always told me I was annoying and that I’m intense. I think I’ve got it channeled now with people to a point where I’m more interesting and focused ( I hope?), but it has only been the past few years. I guess it wouldn’t surprise me that my default is to be annoying and intense on stock with the dogs. Poor dogs.
Moreover, I get real neurotic about Rippa and this whole thing in general. Like, “Ugh, I broke her. I quit.” Or, “Maybe she’s just not good enough inherently.” I feel like I don’t know enough to make a call one way or the other. I keep telling you I had lots of positive reinforcement on her early on, but now that I’m performing sub-par with her, I’m like, “Maybe she doesn’t have it all going on,” when I think it’s more to do with me and her opportunities.
Or am I just really good at making excuses? My brain, it asplodes!
Anyway, I’m not getting another dog anytime soon or making puppies, so it is what it is.
Anyway, so WHAT happened at the trial? I didn’t try that hard, that’s what. Nobody (not even the Fury Q’d) but I was pretty damn happy with what I got and I feel like that’s all that matters.
I entered The Fury on ducks and the first run, she just totally spaced. She’s a very, very active senior dog, and it’s not like her to space, but whatever caused it, wasn’t worth pushing her. Also, the damn ducks kept getting back into the take pen because the door wouldn’t close. So I left her happy and called it a run. The second run, she did super awesome, but she was too slow to get around them and put them through the chute. I tried it a couple times, but I guess I was late on my commands because I’m not used to The Fury being a bit pokey and rather than push the issue at a trial, I again was happy with how it went and quit it there. I probably could have done better had I adapted to what my dog was giving me, but I went into this trial thinking I was going to not even go, so anything I got that was happy was good.
Rippa –
On ducks the first run, they kept flipping back to the back fence, which the judge later told me is a normal thing and the thing to do there is to have her fetch to me. I tried really hard to use Rippa and I to hold the ducks like a wall and have them make a choice to go to the panels instead. My ducks at home will do that, so I guess I have to train the ducks and dogs to flip back because it’s so common and practice dealing with it. Okay. Either way, psyched on how Rippa did. Plus, the damn ducks went back into that take pen again. Twice. I watched Doug Manley handle it when this happened and he didn’t miss a beat . . . just got it handled like it was nothing. I want to be that cool.
Second run was better, but I was late on sending the ducks to the chute and sent Rippa on a GoBy, but because I was late, she didn’t have great control and I didn’t help keep her off and it just didn’t go well, so I quit. Again, I was happy that she was working and happy.
Mostly, I need to be a better handler and think faster with changing conditions like Doug did. That comes with experience at trials, I think.
Cattle were interesting. They were really scared of people and you couldn’t get too close at all. Dustin told me going into it to try really hard not to use any commands, just my body and keep it under control, so that was the plan. I watched enough runs that I figured if I could keep them moving and stay at the back, I’d be fine, at least until the center pen.
Rippa, considering that she had quit me going into this week, was fantastic. She took her commands really well and kept them moving. A lot of dogs would get the cows stuck and do a lot of yelling at them and that never happened with us. She did, however, lose it when she felt like they were getting away from her (I’m sure I was affecting it, too, but again, I’m still clueless at this) and she’d go to head and mess stuff up, but we made the first panel, and got close enough to the second panel that I called it good (most people were having a ROUGH time), made a half-hearted attempt at the center pen, and then repenned them. We were the only team, I think, that AM trial to be able to repen the cattle – they were nuts. So I gave myself and Rippa some gold stars and we were happy with that, even though it wasn’t a Q. Interestingly, my tactics let me get really close to the cattle compared to other people, again, I was pretty shocked and not resilient enough to changed tactics when I figured this out to my advantage, but eh . . . it takes time.
The second run, the cows had settled down and were easier for everyone to manage. We didn’t do as well this time, but I did get first and second panel with some drama in between (again, Rippa would stop being good and run to head when she felt out of control, making a mess), got an attempt at the center pen and I was repenning when time got called.
Everyone that trialled ran really close to the 10 minute mark, that’s how the cows were, so again, I was really happy with our runs. I know I made mistakes, I tried to fix them – sometimes I just gave up and went with it depending on how Rippa was feeling, and I also used a lot more commands than I wanted to going into it, but Rippa was happy to work with me and that’s all I wanted. We were a team. I knew we were going to go home and spend a lot of time working on fundamentals for both me and her so we got through the trial without embarrassing ourselves, I hope.
I’ve not really felt like working dogs since then, partly because I don’t feel so good and I think it’s translating to my handling, and partly just because I have a lot of other stuff going on. I’m going to be gone this week and then on vacation for two weeks, so I’m kind of thinking the break will be good for them and me, because I really need to get my training act together.
Dustin made a good point: his dogs live in kennels. When they come out, they work, and so there’s that relationship. Whereas I’m always working with my dogs because they live with me. I go to the beach with them, take them on hikes, play frisbee, etc. They have lots of other fun things to do, so if it stops being fun, they’re more inclined to blow it off. I’d not really thought of it that way, but it’s true. And I also let my training erode. Rippa isn’t super responsive to certain things because we’re casual about things. So I’ve been working on that, making her work kind of all the time and respond in a snappy way.
I'm about to talk about a respected judge by name. I've been trying to decide if I should leave it alone or not, but she was quite forthcoming about her expectations and opinions, so I don't think this is anything that if she finds out I said will be hurtful or contrary to how she wishes to be perceived. And I think it's an interesting educational point that came out of the trial that I hadn't worried about until this point. (Well, I actually had worried about, but the last two trials had made me feel secure that my worries were needless and this undid that.) I figure it might well be useful to friends trialing in the same situation anyway.
The biggest takeaway for this trial was that I learned that judges DO matter - both to how they score you and to your experience. Previously I figured, eh, it's a few points here and there, what's the difference? We trialed under Joan Carillo and at the handler’s meeting she specifically said she didn’t want to see biting of the cows, especially face or tail biting. Erk. Dustin and Shannon both encourage appropriate hits (not the tail biting) and power and so do I. This was going to be awkward. We like dogs with the courage to back up the threat.
I timed for both judges as much as I could, and Joan was very, very down on Shannon and Dustin’s dogs for biting to anyone within earshot of her. I watched a LOT of dogs run at cows and get nowhere because they wouldn’t bite them, but Shannon and Dustin’s dogs did and they never got stuck (it might have gotten messy, so flip side to that coin, but yeah), and same with Rippa. And they didn’t need a heel bite, the cows were turning to face the dogs off. If your dog didn’t hit them, they’d just stay like that until they figured the dog wouldn’t do anything and start doing their own thing.
Without a pointy reminder from Meg, that cow could have just stayed put.
Was there gratuitous biting? Yeah, but I personally felt better about that than not being able to move the cows at all – and these were all quite green dogs – they’ll grow into controlling it more over time with experience and miles. No blood drawn, nothing horrible, forgivable, in my opinion.
But there was definitely a dark cloud on us for having dogs like that. Shannon and Dustin both were not psyched on how they were treated by her at the trial- Dustin got right back at her at one point when Joan yelled at him to watch the biting and he yelled back, "How is the dog supposed to move the cattle?!"
I have to admit that I felt a bit “slinky” when I drove away this time because even though I was happy with how things went, I didn’t really want to stick around for awards and see my low score (I already knew I didn’t Q anywhere) because my dog didn’t let the cows get stuck – nor did I want to hear about it - it wasn't going to do anything for me or the dog. It made me feel crummy enough that I don't think I'll trial under her again. Had she just made her point and let it be or called time, it would have been better - for me - than knowing how much disdain she was willing to share with others for it, and making me wonder what she was talking about to others about me and my dog. She's been at this a long time and is a respected judge, and, no, every bite that happened didn't need to happen. I respect that is her thing, but it made me just FEEL bad as a novice trialer with a novice dog who can't really control such things in that scenario yet. Is the solution to just don't trial? I don't think so.
I guess trials aren’t the be-all and end all, anyway. I’m proud of Rippa for having some real bite and presence to her. I’ve said it before, it’s not just the bite for her. She can look at stock across the arena and they’re watching her. She’s not lying to them about needing to move. I don’t think it’s all that useful in most trial scenarios because dogs with less power can get it done (especially because people try to find nice, compliant stock for trials), but it’s something I know ranchers want and need and I know it’s not a given in Aussies, so I am proud to have it and I won’t be training it out of her. I really need to figure out how to get her balance back in tune, because if she stayed off the stock more naturally, she'd not feel compelled to hit them as much, but I am happy that she's willing to get a poll or a heel when she thinks it's needed. You can't train that kind of confidence.
I will say, conversely, that so far my relationship with the judges at trials has also MADE the trials - because I tend to interact a lot, both because I'm trying to learn and I'm willing to be vulnerable in order to do that, because I like to help out with timing,etc, and simply because they set the tone. This was just one bad experience for me and that's okay. Something to learn from. I used to keep a notebook when I did conformation about which judges to go under or not, and it might just be the same with stockdog trials.
In fact, I told Terry Martin recently that I was really appreciative of her dogs being able to take me as far as I want to go with this. I got Slash V lines because I was coming out of conformation and I liked the look of her working dogs more than others that I’d seen. They are a difficult line to have for your first working Aussie, that’s for sure – at least mine are, guardy, reserved, very very aware of their surroundings and reactive to them, but I’ve never once been left wishing I had more dog than I did. I want to learn to train dogs to work stock? Great, we got this. Cattle? Yeah, we got that, too. Real ranch work? Yes. In fact, they’ve also been the best trail and adventure dogs I could have asked for. They don’t get lost, they naturally track their location and trails, and they naturally stick with you.
I get comments all the time about what nice trail dogs I have, and I don’t take it for granted. Yes, some training goes into it, but if your dog’s not interested in really meeting other dogs or people, devoted to specifically making you happy, stays on the trail, and stays with you, you can’t go wrong.
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