COAST Trial: Trial #3

So, I last left you wondering if I hadn’t broken my dog because she was quitting me in the “I don’t get it, I love you, can I do something else for you” way.

Dustin and Shannon took me and worked with me for three or so hours prior to the trial and showed me my #1 biggest problem was that I was micromanaging Rippa and that I needed to shut up and stay calm (a theme)?

I want to be like, “Man, I wish I had a different personality” because honestly, that was my problem growing up, too. People always told me I was annoying and that I’m intense. I think I’ve got it channeled now with people to a point where I’m more interesting and focused ( I hope?), but it has only been the past few years. I guess it wouldn’t surprise me that my default is to be annoying and intense on stock with the dogs. Poor dogs.

Moreover, I get real neurotic about Rippa and this whole thing in general. Like, “Ugh, I broke her. I quit.” Or, “Maybe she’s just not good enough inherently.” I feel like I don’t know enough to make a call one way or the other. I keep telling you I had lots of positive reinforcement on her early on, but now that I’m performing sub-par with her, I’m like, “Maybe she doesn’t have it all going on,” when I think it’s more to do with me and her opportunities.
Or am I just really good at making excuses? My brain, it asplodes!

Anyway, I’m not getting another dog anytime soon or making puppies, so it is what it is.

Anyway, so WHAT happened at the trial? I didn’t try that hard, that’s what. Nobody (not even the Fury Q’d) but I was pretty damn happy with what I got and I feel like that’s all that matters.

I entered The Fury on ducks and the first run, she just totally spaced. She’s a very, very active senior dog, and it’s not like her to space, but whatever caused it, wasn’t worth pushing her. Also, the damn ducks kept getting back into the take pen because the door wouldn’t close. So I left her happy and called it a run. The second run, she did super awesome, but she was too slow to get around them and put them through the chute. I tried it a couple times, but I guess I was late on my commands because I’m not used to The Fury being a bit pokey and rather than push the issue at a trial, I again was happy with how it went and quit it there. I probably could have done better had I adapted to what my dog was giving me, but I went into this trial thinking I was going to not even go, so anything I got that was happy was good.

Rippa –

On ducks the first run, they kept flipping back to the back fence, which the judge later told me is a normal thing and the thing to do there is to have her fetch to me. I tried really hard to use Rippa and I to hold the ducks like a wall and have them make a choice to go to the panels instead. My ducks at home will do that, so I guess I have to train the ducks and dogs to flip back because it’s so common and practice dealing with it. Okay. Either way, psyched on how Rippa did. Plus, the damn ducks went back into that take pen again. Twice. I watched Doug Manley handle it when this happened and he didn’t miss a beat . . . just got it handled like it was nothing. I want to be that cool.

Second run was better, but I was late on sending the ducks to the chute and sent Rippa on a GoBy, but because I was late, she didn’t have great control and I didn’t help keep her off and it just didn’t go well, so I quit. Again, I was happy that she was working and happy.

Mostly, I need to be a better handler and think faster with changing conditions like Doug did. That comes with experience at trials, I think.

Cattle were interesting. They were really scared of people and you couldn’t get too close at all. Dustin told me going into it to try really hard not to use any commands, just my body and keep it under control, so that was the plan. I watched enough runs that I figured if I could keep them moving and stay at the back, I’d be fine, at least until the center pen.

Rippa, considering that she had quit me going into this week, was fantastic. She took her commands really well and kept them moving. A lot of dogs would get the cows stuck and do a lot of yelling at them and that never happened with us. She did, however, lose it when she felt like they were getting away from her (I’m sure I was affecting it, too, but again, I’m still clueless at this) and she’d go to head and mess stuff up, but we made the first panel, and got close enough to the second panel that I called it good (most people were having a ROUGH time), made a half-hearted attempt at the center pen, and then repenned them. We were the only team, I think, that AM trial to be able to repen the cattle – they were nuts. So I gave myself and Rippa some gold stars and we were happy with that, even though it wasn’t a Q. Interestingly, my tactics let me get really close to the cattle compared to other people, again, I was pretty shocked and not resilient enough to changed tactics when I figured this out to my advantage, but eh . . . it takes time.

The second run, the cows had settled down and were easier for everyone to manage. We didn’t do as well this time, but I did get first and second panel with some drama in between (again, Rippa would stop being good and run to head when she felt out of control, making a mess), got an attempt at the center pen and I was repenning when time got called.

Everyone that trialled ran really close to the 10 minute mark, that’s how the cows were, so again, I was really happy with our runs. I know I made mistakes, I tried to fix them – sometimes I just gave up and went with it depending on how Rippa was feeling, and I also used a lot more commands than I wanted to going into it, but Rippa was happy to work with me and that’s all I wanted. We were a team.  I knew we were going to go home and spend a lot of time working on fundamentals for both me and her so we got through the trial without embarrassing ourselves, I hope.

I’ve not really felt like working dogs since then, partly because I don’t feel so good and I think it’s translating to my handling, and partly just because I have a lot of other stuff going on. I’m going to be gone this week and then on vacation for two weeks, so I’m kind of thinking the break will be good for them and me, because I really need to get my training act together.

Dustin made a good point: his dogs live in kennels. When they come out, they work, and so there’s that relationship. Whereas I’m always working with my dogs because they live with me. I go to the beach with them, take them on hikes, play frisbee, etc. They have lots of other fun things to do, so if it stops being fun, they’re more inclined to blow it off. I’d not really thought of it that way, but it’s true. And I also let my training erode. Rippa isn’t super responsive to certain things because we’re casual about things.  So I’ve been working on that, making her work kind of all the time and respond in a snappy way.

I'm about to talk about a respected judge by name. I've been trying to decide if I should leave it alone or not, but she was quite forthcoming about her expectations and opinions, so I don't think this is anything that if she finds out I said will be hurtful or contrary to how she wishes to be perceived. And I think it's an interesting educational point that came out of the trial that I hadn't worried about until this point. (Well, I actually had worried about, but the last two trials had made me feel secure that my worries were needless and this undid that.) I figure it might well be useful to friends trialing in the same situation anyway.

The biggest takeaway for this trial was that I learned that judges DO matter - both to how they score you and to your experience. Previously I figured, eh, it's a few points here and there, what's the difference? We trialed under Joan Carillo and at the handler’s meeting she specifically said she didn’t want to see biting of the cows, especially face or tail biting. Erk. Dustin and Shannon both encourage appropriate hits (not the tail biting) and power and so do I. This was going to be awkward. We like dogs with the courage to back up the threat.

I timed for both judges as much as I could, and Joan was very, very down on Shannon and Dustin’s dogs for biting to anyone within earshot of her. I watched a LOT of dogs run at cows and get nowhere because they wouldn’t bite them, but Shannon and Dustin’s dogs did and they never got stuck (it might have gotten messy, so flip side to that coin, but yeah), and same with Rippa. And they didn’t need a heel bite, the cows were turning to face the dogs off. If your dog didn’t hit them, they’d just stay like that until they figured the dog wouldn’t do anything and start doing their own thing.

Without a pointy reminder from Meg, that cow could have just stayed put.

Was there gratuitous biting? Yeah, but I personally felt better about that than not being able to move the cows at all – and these were all quite green dogs – they’ll grow into controlling it more over time with experience and miles. No blood drawn, nothing horrible, forgivable, in my opinion.

But there was definitely a dark cloud on us for having dogs like that. Shannon and Dustin both were not psyched on how they were treated by her at the trial- Dustin got right back at her at one point when Joan yelled at him to watch the biting and he yelled back, "How is the dog supposed to move the cattle?!"

I have to admit that I felt a bit “slinky” when I drove away this time because even though I was happy with how things went, I didn’t really want to stick around for awards and see my low score (I already knew I didn’t Q anywhere) because my dog didn’t let the cows get stuck – nor did I want to hear about it - it wasn't going to do anything for me or the dog. It made me feel crummy enough that I don't think I'll trial under her again. Had she just made her point and let it be or called time, it would have been better - for me - than knowing how much disdain she was willing to share with others for it, and making me wonder what she was talking about to others about me and my dog. She's been at this a long time and is a respected judge, and, no, every bite that happened didn't need to happen. I respect that is her thing, but it made me just FEEL bad as a novice trialer with a novice dog who can't really control such things in that scenario yet. Is the solution to just don't trial? I don't think so.

I guess trials aren’t the be-all and end all, anyway. I’m proud of Rippa for having some real bite and presence to her. I’ve said it before, it’s not just the bite for her. She can look at stock across the arena and they’re watching her. She’s not lying to them about needing to move. I don’t think it’s all that useful in most trial scenarios because dogs with less power can get it done (especially because people try to find nice, compliant stock for trials), but it’s something I know ranchers want and need and I know it’s not a given in Aussies, so I am proud to have it and I won’t be training it out of her. I really need to figure out how to get her balance back in tune, because if she stayed off the stock more naturally, she'd not feel compelled to hit them as much, but I am happy that she's willing to get a poll or a heel when she thinks it's needed. You can't train that kind of confidence.

I will say, conversely, that so far my relationship with the judges at trials has also MADE the trials - because I tend to interact a lot, both because I'm trying to learn and I'm willing to be vulnerable in order to do that, because I like to help out with timing,etc, and simply because they set the tone. This was just one bad experience for me and that's okay. Something to learn from. I used to keep a notebook when I did conformation about which judges to go under or not, and it might just be the same with stockdog trials.

In fact, I told Terry Martin recently that I was really appreciative of her dogs being able to take me as far as I want to go with this. I got Slash V lines because I was coming out of conformation and I liked the look of her working dogs more than others that I’d seen. They are a difficult line to have for your first working Aussie, that’s for sure – at least mine are, guardy, reserved, very very aware of their surroundings and reactive to them, but I’ve never once been left wishing I had more dog than I did. I want to learn to train dogs to work stock? Great, we got this. Cattle? Yeah, we got that, too. Real ranch work? Yes. In fact, they’ve also been the best trail and adventure dogs I could have asked for. They don’t get lost, they naturally track their location and trails, and they naturally stick with you.

I get comments all the time about what nice trail dogs I have, and I don’t take it for granted. Yes, some training goes into it, but if your dog’s not interested in really meeting other dogs or people, devoted to specifically making you happy, stays on the trail, and stays with you, you can’t go wrong.

Have I Broken My Dog?

On Wednesday, Rippa quit me again. It’s not your classic dog quitting behavior where they won’t take commands and run out of the ring.

No, Rippa just stops working. She’ll come to heel next to me and offer anything else I could ask for, but just won’t go to her stock.

And when this happens, you get in a position where it’s like, do I force her into something to end on a good note or do I let her win and walk away?

So I went out to ducks yesterday and set up a course.

Fury absolutely killed it – nailing the entire thing in 30 seconds.

Rippa? Rippa quit me. She either went too hard or didn’t go at all.  I  got her back at the end, but not “open trialing dog” back.

And, wouldn’t you know, I entered an open trial this weekend.

So I asked Shannon if they could find time for me today (Friday) and they did, because they’re wonderful. I can’t go to a trial that way, but after the ducks, I was ready to just not show up, even if that meant skipping it with Fury, too . . . because I have other stuff to do that I feel guilty blowing off, really.  I had heard the trial had a waitlist, but nope, they don’t. It was flush money away if I didn’t go.

So when I got there, we started in with the goats and Rippa was a bit naughty. She blew me off a bit and went to water instead of working and Dustin, who hadn’t really seen us work in a bit, was like, “Nope nope nope nope.”

…

After Wednesday’s work, I was really discouraged. Here were my thoughts,

“OMG – everyone says you’ll ruin your dog if you take them to a border collie trainer – maybe I did!

“OMG – Rippa must really suck if she quits me.

“OMG – I personally have broken my dog!”

I talked to people and all of them were like, “It sounds like you drill her too much. Let her do stuff she understands and is fun.”

But I wasn’t drilling her on ducks – the ducks can’t be worked long enough to do that . . . but what became obvious to me was that I have some major training holes with Rippa. Her walk up is broken and I don’t think she fully understands “there” – aka drive them. I had flashbacks to working at Doug’s house with the Fury without much guidance from anyone and having Fury drive by calling her to me with inside flanks and then relying on her enthusiasm to keep going. It totally works, but it doesn’t mean the dog knows anything really except to take your command and then run at the stock. It’s not control.

And as I’m going to DSW today, I remember the last Kathy clinic I was at, and her telling someone with a more advanced dog, “Lay off the tweaking. You can do too much.”

So, yes, I knew I had holes. I knew I needed to go back and work on fundamentals instead of obedience, but Dustin pretty much nailed it to the wall . . .

When had I truly gone wrong? When I dropped my mantra of “shut up and calm down” from a few months ago.

I had, again, began to yap. People used to tell me ALL the time that I talked too much, and I have said as I became more self aware of it, that it’s insecurity. Hell, I write too much, too. The minute I do something bad, I want to tell the world. It’s some kind of defense mechanism that says, “Look at me, I’m know I’m bad, so you don’t have to tell me!”

He’s like, “She’s not taking your commands that much and when you get mad, she dives in. Take this stick, use your body, and shut your mouth.” (Well, he said it in more words, but you get my point.)

I did. She was awesome. She went from being too pushy to balancing at the top, kicking out wide when I made turns, settling into walking straight into the goats . . . and being perfectly honest.

“And what did you learn from that? Rippa knows what she knows. But she can’t deal with you telling her all this stuff that doesn’t mean anything that you don’t reinforce anyway. You know how you get over this? Shut up.” Again, paraphrasing. He’s too nice to tell me to shut up.

When we were done, Shannon was like, “I think you should at least trial in ducks, tomorrow.” Dustin again was like, “No, you can trial in cattle. You can do this. Why would you waste money you already paid – just use it for a training opportunity.”

BUT HOW? I don’t even know what to do! I can’t do that on cows! She doesn’t balance up ever. “Oh, but she will” he said, knowingly.

So, we went up to cattle and Dustin had me lay Rippa down and outlined that as soon as she cut in on her outrun, she was to lay down, and I would reposition, using only my body and the paddle, and send her again, laying her down just when she’d moved the cattle a bit.

After two goes at that, Rippa was super quiet, thoughtful and balanced. I layed her down. We did it in the opposite direction. She went so quietly into the cattle after that that I did some parallel drives, and by the end she was quietly fetching in balance with them.

There were some times when she wasn’t perfect, and it was because I wasn’t there to reinforce it. Holes. It was also when I said “No” or  yelled at her and she’d go dive right in, or start thinking about quitting because I yelled at her.

But otherwise, she was happy, in control of herself and her stock, and moving them at a walk.

It was like, “Oh, I got this. She’s not ruined!”

So, we’re going to trial tomorrow on cattle, and we’re probably going to confuse people when I handle her like this, and it will probably not qualify me because I won’t let her work too much, but it will get my dog back and help fill in the holes in my training, and I’m psyched.

Funny thing is that now I totally know what happened – just like dogs have bad habits, so do people. I’m a dog trainer because I like telling dogs what to do. I LOVE micromanaging. Rippa has gotten far enough along that I do micromanage her and it was working until I was pushing too much and she didn’t get the point. I did it to Fury, too, and Fury didn’t quit, she just got angry. She still gives me angry face when I push her too hard for her tastes. I think trainers who saw her do this would get mad at her, but we have an understanding – when I cross the line, she lets me know, but still works through it.

Rippa doesn’t let me know. Rippa just gives up and tries to please me in ways she understands.

I think this is going to be something I battle anytime I handle a dog – it just becomes habit. I know better, but in the moment I don’t.

Shut up, calm down. I’m sure glad the Woods are going to the trial with me tomorrow. We got this, even if we don’t. I am so grateful to those two. They’re wonderful friends, and they took a solid three hours out of their day to help me today get Rips back on track.

Stockdog training is just dog training

Well, my big insight lately is that I think the quality of dog you have is set and what I’m used to seeing is that it doesn’t really matter as long as you’re willing to work on your dog. That’s why it can take years for people to train their dogs to a finished level.

But it can also take years to train your dog to a finished level if you’re a crappy trainer.

For example, having gone out and done some real-world work . . . I found that letting Rippa cheat her outruns was a stupid thing to do. Guess what we’re doing now?

NOT LETTING RIPPA CHEAT HER OUTRUNS.

Also, obedience reinforcement.

Last time I went to a Kathy Warren clinic, she was really getting after people consistently for not making “down” mean “down.” Not having seen her or trained with her in a while, it seemed like something new she’d started to focus on . . . or else maybe not having Kathy there consistently made people lazy. My guess is the latter.

When I was timing at the COAST trial, one of the judges mentioned how so-and-so’s dogs weren’t really all that talented, but she had them trained to a point where it didn’t matter. I think that totally works.

I think there’s a rare blend of dog out there that’s talented, biddable, and drivey enough to take very little training to get things done perfectly at the trial level, but there’s a grip of dogs who get by on one or the other thing.

This trial thing, I think I’ve got a talented little dog, but she’s not as sharp as her mother in biddability. I like watching her work stuff out like panels and obstacles or when something she doesn’t expect happens. She isn’t pure confidence and never has been and I’m definitely going to need to put that back in on the next generation, but she’s more thinky than her mother, and makes the right choices even despite me.

Fury, however, I don’t think is as talented. It’s really obvious working the ducks because, same ducks, different dogs and the outcome is different. The Fury takes her commands faster, but the ducks line out and she often drops a couple because she’s watching ducky head and not the whole picture. Her sense of group isn’t there. Shannon made a point, once, though, that with big herds, that doesn’t matter – and the Fury has stronger confidence in fetching than Rippa seems to.

Rippa, however, keeps them in a group and points them where they need to go, never dropping them, never having to clean it up.

But with both dogs, I’m at the point on ducks where I feel like I can set up my easy chair and get ‘er done. Funny how the ducks seem to come so much more easily than the other stock – and the other stock the problem is that the dogs come in too hard. Of course, at the last trial: both dogs went in pretty rough on the ducks a couple times and the crowd went WOOOOOOAH! I personally stayed chill because I knew that was important to my handling, and also because we work chickens and ducks all the time – and they never actually get injured (aside from Lucky who stepped in a gopher hole and broke her leg a year ago). The job gets done, but I don’t worry about how it looks per se. The dogs aren’t going to mangle them.

I keep thinking how exciting it will be to start a new dog in the future because of how much I’ve learned and see how much of all of this is actually right and how much is my inability to see talent in dogs still (I think it takes a trained eye that I’m only just starting to get).