Sending a dog for starting with Sarah Martin

This isn't about Rippa's journey to WTCh. I'm pretty much over it, to be honest with you, so I guess so is this blog? I don't know. I'm over it because she doesn't like trialing and neither do I. I signed her up for MVA at Aussie Nationals and we'll do okay and if I feel like pushing her more because I can, I will, but I'm having plenty of fun just refining my training skills with her and seeing our team work improve.

I've spent the last 3 months focusing on my own handling skills and thought process. Running a book club about Jack Knox's book was helpful in making me think deeper from a new perspective I haven't been exposed to. In the past few years, I've sampled a few trainers and thought I was going to commit to Sherry Baker as a mentor/trainer but the kids put a stop to that.

I also think I mentioned this before, but Rick Hardin put it into my mind that perhaps part of the reason I have not been successful with my dogs prior to this is that they just work differently from the dogs that Sherry and my former mentor Kathy Warren expect and it didn't fit as well. Everyone has a different style and I do know that their lines and my lines aren't exactly the same so it was possible. He said, send her to Sarah. I feel like when a stockdog judge who has your best interest (since he has the brother, among other things) tells you to send the dog to the owner of the dog's sire and a friend that's become a mentor, you do it.

I've been on this quest to go deeper into what is needed in a using dog for a while now because I have been going more and more "pure" in my quest to promote and preserve the Aussie. I have learned so much from having my own stock, but unless I have an operation like Sarah's, I really won't know/see things without putting myself out there.

And I've been fortunate to make a number of friends that have invited me into that, which of course, includes Sarah. Thank God for the Internet because you have a mentor in Canada and the only way that works is with videos and Facebook chats. :)

The thing I really like about Sarah's methods (which are derived from Elvin Kopp, and she is VERY careful to remind you that none of this is hers and is all his) is that it's based in dog management first. If I had been given the kind of tools she has given me with my first working dog, and then my second, I think my life with those dogs would have been very different. I was blocking Danger from looking at the cows at one point and she was like "no no no, this is what you do - otherwise it causes reactivity." And she's not wrong. I just didn't see it until she showed me. This is pretty much the whole thing about Sarah that I love.

When I visited her about four years ago, she had all her dogs in crates in a dark barn that she let out to run but then back in they went and I was a little horrified. Not even a run? What sad little doggies. But one thing I've learned is not to judge people until you find out why. So . . . over time, I did.

One thing the last time I visited with Kathy Warren that stuck with me was when she mentioned a guy at a clinic having "raised his dogs right." I always wondered what that totally meant, but I thought at the time it was kenneling them when you weren't working, the end. Kathy loves to talk about dogs and takes time to explain things when I ask to her to expand, but it doesn't always "connect" with me.

Now I think I understand what she meant, because of Sarah and the proof of how that is. :)

My experience with trainers has been they take your dog and they work with what you and they have to offer. There isn't a whole lot of what to do off the stock in terms of education. I've often felt that I was not equipped well to have a multi-dog household and we had a lot of issues figuring it out when I had two dogs with strong opinions and rules. My dogs tend to be alphas and you really need dogs willing to submit in a house.

I didn't have Danger Mouse managed well. I blame work and ignorance and raising twin preschoolers. He is a LOT of dog. He's friendly and sweet, but he's also ALPHA and has opinions and is pushy and didn't know how to yield to people or to stock. He'd literally go out there and got so hyped he couldn't think about controlling the stock, it was just taking them out. I knew he had it in there because I'd seen him as a puppy and when I got him working it was good, but you had to have impeccable timing and skills to get him going. It wasn't the goal I had for the litter when I bred him, but I've found if you want a really strong dog, this kind of thing comes with the territory.

So, it was quite clear I couldn't be consistent and unemotional with him. It was time to send him out. I had a couple choices: a local guy that took in client dogs (BC guy), a great trainer in the state that I'd sent his mom to when I wanted to know if she was as good as I thought she was, or Sarah in Canada.

Effortwise, it made zero sense to pick Sarah. Flights and logistics and everything else, but if I wanted the best start possible for both of us, I knew it had to be Sarah.

Here's why: she spent the first month just setting new rules for him off stock. The second month, she set new rules for him before she let him have stock, on a line. And the third month? Now he was willing to work with her.

The thing that I've learned through this process is this: dogs want and need control. Her strict "parenting" resulted in him absolutely loving her, to the point that when I picked him up, he was torn about who to go to and listen to. I was kind of expecting a different dog, more controlled, calmer, but he was still his goofy oafy happy self, but you could shut off his inappropriate energy with a warning growl and he'd get right to business.

And while I don't want to go into all the details, because Sarah is right - that too little information without context can ruin dogs and people . . . there are some things that have revolutionize my dog management and stockdog handling techniques.

1. I am so much more quiet. Because of the ground work and then subsequent line work (which nobody I've learned from up to this point has used), I don't yell. A growl lets him know he's not acting right, a line catches him for correction. And you can toss a cane at him if he doesn't listen to either. No more long sticks with bottles on them (though I will still use it as a tool). It's not all about your body language fixing the issue. It's about giving the dog the control they want and a low growl being the thing the checks them. When I run into a dog to push them out, it creates strong, aggressive body language, and builds it in my head. Sarah's quiet method keeps me calm, quiet, and in turn, my dog. Sherry Baker pointed out I was too much with the stick, not aware of how it affected the dog, how my posture didn't. Her method makes me aware.

2. Expectations outside of stock. He can't pee whenever he wants. He comes out of his crate, when allowed verbally even if the door is open, goes and fully empties his bladder. He yields to me if I walk into him and doesn't come back in unless I invite him. He can go from being like WEEE we're having fun, to calming himself down and focusing. He honestly appreciates being put into that position more than running free. All it takes is a growl for him to correct behavior. No praise needed, no commands. He knows what he's supposed to be doing and he corrects himself. He's being allowed to make choices and grow up. And that is going to help him on stock.

3. Feel. After 3.5 months, the only commands he has on him is back (which is like, "out") and down. He doesn't need anything more yet. But he has such nice feel because rather than helping him with the stick and walking into him and correcting him until he gets magically in the right spot, he knows how to give to my pressure and the stock and that he doesn't have to come in to still have control. This is the first time I've had that in a dog, and I'm 100% sure of it that it's the training/handling/ground work that's giving it.

What I also like about Sarah's method is that it's not hard and fast. It's all about calming the dog down. Well . . . that's what my dogs need. I am sure she changes it up if a dog needs encouragement, but as Rick said, what my dog was going to need was to learn "patience." And I certainly did not have the tools prior to this to do that.

In fact, I think Sarah would be able to put on an amazing clinic for reactive dogs totally outside of the stock context. She understands how to set boundaries and react appropriately to them, far more than I have in the 25+ years I've been in dogs. It's not like I've wasted my time twiddling my fingers; her ability to explain things clearly and in detail in the context of action and repercussion is something anyone can take and use as a tool.

And there's so much more to learn. I truly believe that Sarah will revolutionize stock handling as she takes what she's learned from Elvin and continues to evolve it with her own vision.

What if dogs have different needs in training?

Since I've been out of the serious dog training game for a while, I've recently started reading new information and signing up for DVDs and what not about dog training because I know a lot can change in 15 years.

One of the biggest things I've been learning of late is what it takes to "raise a dog right" for working.

My training skills came from doing conformation and beginner agility lessons when I was a teenager. That was over 20 years ago. Things have changed so much, in a blink of an eye. And that's also quite a few generations of dogs long ago, too.

I've been leading a discussion on Jack Knox's book Life's Lessons with Stockdogs on the Working Aussie Source group page. At first I found the book disjointed and not very interesting, and then toward the middle he started catching my attention.

"Stop telling your dog what to do" he practically shouted out from the page. "Help her be right and let her know when she's wrong, that's it." I read this as "you have a smart dog with talent, let it grow up."

Maybe it's also because I'm a new parent, and I really do equate a lot of my parenting to the dog training I have a lot more experience with. Things like being firm, not repeating yourself, not negotiating, and knowing when to let things slide.

One of the biggest challenges in society I have run across is that I've raised my 3 year olds to be aware and make good decisions. I can let them go get something in a store without being right by their side. But I can't tell you how many times it's ended in tears because a well-meaning adult didn't think they were capable and either tried to help or stopped them altogether to bring them back to me.

So, now take dog training in that context.

When we approach dogs like immature puppies - we are going to get immature puppies. A lot of us are attracted to dog training because, honestly, it's cool to control something. To train them to respond to us. Lord knows we can't do it with anything else in our lives.

And in a lot of ways, that's why I think stockdog training is the hardest. You can ruin a good dog by making them too obedient. By not letting them learn and make mistakes. By telling them what to do.

I saw this meme the other day on a dog training Facebook page. It rankled me. I'd recently had a conversation with someone who thought you trained the "off-switch" in dogs - and I knew they wouldn't understand since they haven't had a dog that had one.

Now, back in the day, I would have been supported this. Love your dog. Tell them they're awesome when they are . . . 

But now that I'm a parent, rewarding your dog for not being obnoxious? No frickin' way. That's like everyone getting a ribbon. 

So I'm wondering if dog training is behind the new empowered parenting movement and it will eventually catch up. All the people who complain about parents who gave their kids a trophy when they didn't earn it creating entitled kids . . . they're training their dogs to be entitled to praise for just . . . existing and NOT making trouble. Shouldn't that be an expectation? One developed by patterns?

I'm not saying don't reward, but reward for legit effort.

Am I wrong?

So then I think, my stockdog training is in direct conflict with my agility training. In agility, you keep the dog hyped up, you tell them exactly what to do, play drive is key. Stockdog, you really want THEM to figure it out, to use their heads, and to calm the heck down.

So then I got to thinking about neoteny. The theory that we select dogs for their puppiness. But if you have a working dog, you don't want all that puppy. You want more wild features.

And then I read this article: "Dogs Never Grow up, and Neither Do Some Foxes,"it took four generations to create fully tame foxes. "These were fully domesticated animals that showed no aggression or fear towards humans, instead wagging their tails and competing for attention." In my breed, we say reserved with strangers. There is a problem with aggression and fear towards humans even after 1000s of years of domesticity, and they don't always wag and compete for attention. It could be argued that these dogs lack the neoteny. They were selected for something else. They were selected for adulthood.

Then there's this: "In Belyaev’s foxes, this socialization window lengthened, and the same seems to have happened to domestic dogs. When a wolf pup is 2 to 3 weeks old, it’s socialization window is already closing. In dogs, however,  in only opens at the age of three weeks and stays so until the age of 12 to 16 weeks. This might be the most important component of domestication, since it gives much more time for the puppy to get to know humans in addition to it’s mother and littermates."

The implications of this are also huge . . . lengthening the period of socialization. My experience with puppies that grow up to be reserved "more adult" dogs . . . they don't enjoy strange people past the age of 8 weeks, if that. 

So here's what my implication is: WHAT IF, your neoteny-selected dog, be it Australian Shepherd or other breed, that's friendly, has a broad head and muzzle and floppy ears (and white) could benefit from praise for doing nothing while my working-selected dog with narrower muzzle, higher ears, less white, and is reserved . . . what if they just need different things?

What if your happy-go-lucky adult dog needs training as if it were still a puppy and your serious and reserved dog needs to be treated like an adult. What if trainers recognized the difference? What would happen if you treated happy like and adult?

What if we owned up to the fact that even within breeds there could be totally different needs for what a dog's potential is?

New lessons - contextual understanding/learning

The Boers and Lamanchas looking at eachother during quarantine

Well, my flock at All About Dogs is now up to 6 Lamancha goats, 10 Boer goats on loan until September, 6 adorable "rainbow" lambs that are something like Katahdin and Barbados, and 9 Barbados. We lost two of my Barbs early on - one little ram that I think panicked and ran into something and broke his neck and one just mysteriously . . . which now gets me tagged on Facebook in all these sheep memes about deciding to die for no reason. Oh, and my ducks came home.

Otherwise, it's pretty smooth sailing. We're aggressively grazing the 5 acres in this unseasonable rain bringing up all kinds of thistle, and I'm loving every minute of it.

I have been pretty obsessed with fencing since WAY before I was ever into livestock or dogs, so I'm pleased to report that my pen setup is AWESOME. The only hard part is getting them from the run in shed on the hill to the pen system at the top when they don't understand what's up.

See all that green and yellow? That's probably 3 acres of brush, thistle, and more goodies that if you lose some animals, good luck having a smooth recovery. It was all well and good before they grew in this winter - Rippa could go down, round em up and call it good. But next her feet hurt from the thistle (which is how I ended up with the goats on loan) and then it grew taller than she OR the stock can see.

Hi, boys!

Which has been SO good for me. I'm starting to totally understand why I've felt so uncertain all these years training in flat arenas for things like rate and control and parallel drive. The sheep are trained to hook into me when they see me so as long as Rippa sees me, they come right to me.

The boer goats are pretty heavy, but they don't like me as much as they don't like the dogs, so when they got loose in that brush field, I learned the value of a parallel drive and then some.  Rips pretty quickly learned to push from the rear and then I, since I could see everything, would make adjustments as we walked along the fence. Once they hit the open field that's mostly just grass, Rippa can get out wide and hold them from going back in there while I push them up and either into the pen system or into the run in shed pen. Trying to do this without a dog is STUPID.

Lamb pile. <3

Then we've got lambs. Oh, they are so cute. But those things are just panic city if they see me or a dog. It's going to rain, so I needed to get them into the run in shed to get out of it, and tried without a dog for a solid 20 minutes before I brought Rippa in and even then, with her holding, they'd just run past her because she was trying to be patient with them and not overpower them while I pushed. I eventually got my boys (the Barbs) and while the Barbs were kind of pushing them away the whole time, they made a bigger, safer herd for the Rainbows (as I like to call them) and we got it done by working the Barbs together.

And then, today, something I was hoping wouldn't happen but suspected would - the goats busted out of the rusty cow fence along the back perimeter of the property. I got a panicked call and sure enough, they were all over the back field where this Episcopal church and nursery are. Whelp, it was an easy enough job with Rippa. She just went out, pushed them out of tree branches and motivated them to go back where they came from. So, after the rains, I've gotta refence that area.

But here's the part where I was like, "OHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh" and also, "MY GOD STOCK PEOPLE NEED DOGS."

Now all the herds were mixed and I had to push them through two arenas, a chute, a small pen, the duck pen, and then out onto the hill and into the run in shed for the rain.

Four totally different flocks at once.

Rippa is NOT a finished trial dog by any means, but what I really appreciated about her today was that she was willing to figure out the job and do it. At first she tried to herd them all in and she got close with the sheep (both herds) but the lambs freaked and the Barbs followed) while the goats hung back. Then she tried the entire herd, and it was really cool as I basically tried to fetch them (because, again, the Barbs could lead everyone) to the gate as Rippa stayed back and basically traversed the whole field to cover everyone dropping off and splitting up. It didn't work because 75% of the stock didn't want to fetch to me, so when I got out of the way they flanked again . . . so basically, I got the goats through, then the Barbs, then did the lambs. Each needed a different technique. By the end, it was old hat and the only difficult bit was field to run in shed.

Those damn Rainbows. The Barbs knew what to do so they led the way and then once I got all the goats pointed in the right direction Rippa and I could just sit and wait for them to go in. Then the lambs . . . OHHHHHHH the lambs.

But by now, Rippa was thoroughly practiced and didn't need a lot of instruction to just walk up as we teamed it across the field to the pen, and when they started thinking about heading into the brush, Rippa went out wide slowly and just kinda let them think about it. They passed the run in shed gate, so I just opened it the other way and then sent Rippa and the went right in.

And I'm just sitting here thinking some thoughts:

1. A lot of the training I've been doing just didn't feel practical so I couldn't really do it, and now I get it. And so does Rippa so we're so much better now.
2. I really like my dogs. I really like that I don't need to say a lot to get the job done because they figure it out and then anticipate what you need. Sometimes Rippa's stubborn and takes over and messes stuff up, but it's always better than doing it by myself.
3. I've always known Rippa was pretty frickin' cool, but she's not had a chance to shine until now. I always said she was "ranchy" - and she is. She wants to do her job and then go in her little den (she dug one in the back yard under the shed) for a while. She is a great little town dog in that she'll follow me around but doesn't want pets or make too much a fuss.
4. I decided when I started breeding that I wouldn't use dogs that weren't tested (aka working on farms and ranches) and I'm really glad I am. The difference between a trial dog that lives in a house and doesn't have to do all this can really be huge. I'd err on intelligence and grit over biddability any day and I am.
5. I do not understand why people with stock don't have a dog. With minimal training, everything you do is both easier, and, honestly, more fun. That's my new tact, I think. It would be fun to do a series of videos of without dog and with . . . stuff like medicating (in the holding pen, if I don't have a dog, the ovids run everywhere. If I do, I can catch them like it's nothing), stuff like moving them from arena to arena . . . holding them at the exit of a hot wire netting fence that's not lit up yet . . . working perimeters, all of it. Without a dog, heck no.
6. I'm feeling privilege to work various breeds of dogs these days - I'm learning a lot about what I like, what I don't and how to change my philosophy. And I'm proud that people are seeing a difference between what I offer and what others might - hat tip to Kathy Warren for teaching me to develop instinct and not obedience (which is what we all really want to do first).
7. I've long had a goal of just being a better trainer and helping create a community for people who want the same and I think I'm ready. Squee.

An update

It's been almost two years since I last did a post.

Ha ha . . . man, what a wild ride it's been - raising twins, my work just blowing up . . .  stockdogging was simply not a thing. I had a litter of pups - unfortunately only two viable, but both are pretty awesome and I think will make their mark soon enough. I've just started mine and I'm pretty excited about him. He's the Australian Shepherd I've always wanted and . . . I made him. And he reminds me of his grandmother in so many ways. Oh, right, and she died last May, too, at the ripe old age of 15. No regrets there.

So the stockdog stuff had been on hold mostly, though I was going out to Robbie's as regularly as I could to work his dogs. Rips for whatever reason was not really doing well there, but he was letting me handle his dogs so I could get better timing and feel.

And then it finally happened - this property on the main road out of town put up a sign that said "All About Dogs." It was so vague, I called them up . . . and the rest is history. Meet All About Dogs (with Kristin influence).

I now have my own stock, a pretty sweet training setup, and my brain is just exploding.

I've been emotionally maturing and letting a lot of stuff that used to bother me go - realizing it didn't serve me, and realizing that "imposter syndrome" is a real thing.

I spent so many years feeling unhinged without a trainer telling me what to do, and then scratching my head when Rippa didn't really improve all this time but knowing she was better than that.

The step to send her to Sherry was definitely the right one  - it proved her potential to me. The stud dog I chose for her was the "right one" and I got EXACTLY what I wanted out of the cross. I'm sad I can't repeat it but she had a hard time with the litter and it's not worth it to me to do that to her or me again. There are simply not enough ranch Aussies getting bred in CA and it bothers me that I get inquiries with nowhere to send them sometimes. But now is not the time for it.

I had my friend Roxy out to play with my ducks a while back and I was able to work her two border collies on them and everything started to click for me - I felt confident and I felt like I knew what I was doing finally. I could see what the dog was doing and what they needed and that lack of confidence melted away.

So when I got my OWN stock, I knew it was important to get the "right" stock because working at Stephanie's had me spinning my wheels. Her sheep are great for how she trains and her dogs, but I needed more dog-broke stock that could stay in the middle of the field or come in to me while I worked on my timing and my dog's placements. Trish Alexander graciously sold me some of hers and MY GOD the world is a different place.

Last session I had Rips out in my arena and we were driving and she was taking wide flank commands and I could NEVER have gotten that out of her prior to sending her to Sherry and then with these sheep. The fact that I am also shows me that it's not all me. That nothing is all me.

I actually just went through a really bad time at work where I internalized a message that was being given to me that I was not good enough. I woke up from that and realized that not only was I good enough, I was pretty amazing and it allowed me to let go of that voice when it came to stockdogs.

And so, now that I'm not letting other people's gossip or words or my imagination of what they think hold me back - I'm starting to find again that I AM pretty amazing. Not like . . . at stockdog training and handling, but I am seeing I have some value to add to the world - both as an Aussie breeder and also as someone who helps people with their dogs.

I've done a few instinct tests on my sheep so far and only one total dud. I figured nobody would have as hard a dog as I have, so hey . . . let's see. And so far I've been right. It might not be the most "perfect" start for people, but I have to learn somewhere. I'm seeing myself make mistakes, but I'm also really quick to stop making that mistake. I can feel it. I can feel subtle shifts in the dogs, and I'm really happy that every sessions so far has ended a lot better than it started - and when my own dogs go back a step after a session, I'm patient and not frustrated because I understand.

I'm also proud of my ability to verbalize what I'm doing and talk about it to people.

And moreover, things my main stockdog mentor, Kathy Warren, taught me - are coming back fast. One thing is I suggested to her once that she write a book and she said that things change too much for that and shrugged and was like, "Okay." But now I can feel it. One of my biggest mistakes was trying to fit the steps to my dog and when they didn't fit the steps, I didn't know how or what not to get them to the next step. So, a book with steps only works if all dogs are universal. My other pup went to Rick Hardin, who has my lines, and he suggested that I might just be frustrated because my dogs handle differently than what the people I take lessons from are breeding for. And suddenly, I was like, OHHHH, and so he opened my mind there and that helped me see that instead of doing it a prescribed way, I needed to be open to the idea that my dogs might be different in how they respond. And I think that's what Kathy was saying (also that training progresses, but yeah) - you can't put everything in a book or in a step by step process with stockdogs, even though I desperately wanted to be able to do that.

Most importantly, Kathy taught me stockmanship. I've always liked working behind the scenes because the stock has always been my #1 love - well before I was into dogs, so being the one to care for them and set them out and what not really gets me in my soul. I'm very proud that I can see the shadows and challenges to a set up and help animals feel comfortable moving off me with minimal stress. Teaching that to others, man, that's a whole new level of enjoyment for me.

Roxy came by and I had her do chores - taught her how to do gates but also how to make the sheep go through one at a time so that you were working on the sheep's manners as much as you and your dog. I learned that from the pens at Kathy's and I'm grateful that she gave me that experience, because I have gathered most people who don't own their own stock get that. I feel like that's going to be my #1 priority with my lessons is stock care.

I guess the other piece that's getting me is that you have to start somewhere. I'm leading a book group that's reading Jack Knox's book and he talks about how he gets the most out of the clinics he leads and that he wouldn't have learned anything from anyone compared to what he learned making mistakes. I've been poking on and off at stockdogs for 17 years - I think it's okay to put my shingle out at this point and help people - and be honest with where I'm at while I'm doing it.

And I'm so excited to be able to.